UnderGround Forums Ready to Call It a UFC PPV COLLAPSE Yet?

12/20/14 2:48 AM
5/30/11
Posts: 3244

MMALOGIC, even with the UFC's shitty injury luck this year, even you have to admit that PPV is an eroding platform. The UFC should be doing more to get away from it. Fewer PPVs not only makes the remaining ones seem stronger and more worth parting with $55, the lesser ones could be huge shows on Fox and help draw in the sort of new casual fans that the UFC desperately needs to create right now.

Even boxing is feeling the PPV pinch now. Manny Pacquiao only pulled in 300k for his last fight. Only one boxing event in the last 2 years has cracked a million buys (Canelo vs. Mayweather last year).

I know that individually, the UFC is still going to make more than twice as much off a PPV that draws 200k as they would from a Fox show, but as an investment it's far more valuable to move more shows to Fox if they can.

 

12/20/14 3:00 AM
1/26/08
Posts: 9019
Chromium -

MMALOGIC, even with the UFC's shitty injury luck this year, even you have to admit that PPV is an eroding platform. The UFC should be doing more to get away from it. Fewer PPVs not only makes the remaining ones seem stronger and more worth parting with $55, the lesser ones could be huge shows on Fox and help draw in the sort of new casual fans that the UFC desperately needs to create right now.

Even boxing is feeling the PPV pinch now. Manny Pacquiao only pulled in 300k for his last fight. Only one boxing event in the last 2 years has cracked a million buys (Canelo vs. Mayweather last year).

I know that individually, the UFC is still going to make more than twice as much off a PPV that draws 200k as they would from a Fox show, but as an investment it's far more valuable to move more shows to Fox if they can.

 

I know it wasn't directed at me but the point of having that many PPVs is to maximize the revenue generated from them so when they go to Fox or ESPN they can be like you get our 50 some events which includes all of our PPVs.

They can state they gave Fox a bargain at $90 mil (not sure what Fox is paying after adding more shows) and since it is including PPV revenue they will add that to it. Take that number, add a decent amount and ask that much for the content per year.

By keeping the most PPVs you are just driving up the price for the content in the future. Phone Post 3.0
12/20/14 3:01 AM
1/26/08
Posts: 9020
teamquestnorth -
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much -
thatonedude - 
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - Next year will be huge improvement over this year in PPV numbers.

Cormier vs Jones

Silva vs Diaz

Weidman vs Belfort
Ronda vs Zingano

Lawler vs Hendricks III

Cain vs Werdum

CM Pubk debut

All signs also point to GSP and Brock returns

Should be a big rebound in PPV sales, 2014 was shitty with all the injuries and Brock/GSP leaving.

Let's bump this thread next January and talk.

Good news is all PPVs should get purchased by fox or whoever does the new TV deal within 5 years s it won't matter. Sorry Haulport, UFC isn't going away, only going to get bigger. Phone Post 3.0

they do give you talking points! I knew it

Nope, just pointing out the facts.

If anyone really thinks UFC PPV is dying and wants to make a bet, I'll bet any blue name or long time UG poster that the UFC sells more PPVs in 2015 then they did 2014. Any takers?
I'm down Phone Post 3.0
Done 30 days for anyone else also. I'll take up to 12 30 day names so either all 12 will have fd up names for 30 days or I will for a year (changing every month).

Lmk if that is ok Phone Post 3.0
12/20/14 3:02 AM
1/26/08
Posts: 9021
Megatherium -
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - 
thatonedude - 
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - Next year will be huge improvement over this year in PPV numbers.

Cormier vs Jones

Silva vs Diaz

Weidman vs Belfort
Ronda vs Zingano

Lawler vs Hendricks III

Cain vs Werdum

CM Pubk debut

All signs also point to GSP and Brock returns

Should be a big rebound in PPV sales, 2014 was shitty with all the injuries and Brock/GSP leaving.

Let's bump this thread next January and talk.

Good news is all PPVs should get purchased by fox or whoever does the new TV deal within 5 years s it won't matter. Sorry Haulport, UFC isn't going away, only going to get bigger. Phone Post 3.0

they do give you talking points! I knew it

Nope, just pointing out the facts.

If anyone really thinks UFC PPV is dying and wants to make a bet, I'll bet any blue name or long time UG poster that the UFC sells more PPVs in 2015 then they did 2014. Any takers?

Sure I'll bet you a funny name change if you like. I see the whole industry cratering in North America. We`re talking about North American ppv buys increasing, is that right?
Yes sir

Same terms as one above, deal? Phone Post 3.0
12/20/14 10:55 AM
5/28/07
Posts: 22708
I Wild Each It - 
epwar - 

Dana insulting their biggest PPV draw certainly didn't help.


Or telling the fans to fuck their dollar.  Brilliant promotional tactics.


You know, it's funny.  I thought that message would only be seen by hardcores, but perhaps it had a bigger impact that we thought.

12/20/14 1:48 PM
5/11/06
Posts: 8950
MMALOGIC - 
thatonedude - 
MMALOGIC - 
shaqitup - 
MMALOGIC - 

It's called a transition.

You cant enjoy both ppv profits and sports rights (and/or subscription fees)   There is a transition going on right now.

PPV numbers will rebound this year but will not likely be back to 2013 levels. Either you maximize sports rights fees/subscription fees or you maximize ppv.  You cant do both.

 


when you say subscription fee are you talking about their online service that nobody paid for?

Im talking about the UFC network in mexico which is a 24 hour UFC subscription network.


could you fill me in I genuinely don't know, but Mexico counts towards the ppv buy rate when they give those numbers? I always thought that was just the US.

 

Zuffa has a 24 hour spanish language subscription network that launched in mexico and launching in every other spanish speaking country. it costs around 12.95 to 14.95/mo and you get everything (ppv's, fight nightts, tuf, etc...)

 

There is no ppv in mexico so they count in the ppv numers.  USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are ppv countries.

PPV will likely go away and be replaced by sports rights fees within the next 5 years.


Thats great for the UFC but when fighters contracts are directly connected to PPV buys, it sounds like they are the ones who get fucked by this as I dont see any replacement for the PPV points mentioned.
12/20/14 2:31 PM
5/30/11
Posts: 3245
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - 
Chromium -

MMALOGIC, even with the UFC's shitty injury luck this year, even you have to admit that PPV is an eroding platform. The UFC should be doing more to get away from it. Fewer PPVs not only makes the remaining ones seem stronger and more worth parting with $55, the lesser ones could be huge shows on Fox and help draw in the sort of new casual fans that the UFC desperately needs to create right now.

Even boxing is feeling the PPV pinch now. Manny Pacquiao only pulled in 300k for his last fight. Only one boxing event in the last 2 years has cracked a million buys (Canelo vs. Mayweather last year).

I know that individually, the UFC is still going to make more than twice as much off a PPV that draws 200k as they would from a Fox show, but as an investment it's far more valuable to move more shows to Fox if they can.

 

I know it wasn't directed at me but the point of having that many PPVs is to maximize the revenue generated from them so when they go to Fox or ESPN they can be like you get our 50 some events which includes all of our PPVs.

They can state they gave Fox a bargain at $90 mil (not sure what Fox is paying after adding more shows) and since it is including PPV revenue they will add that to it. Take that number, add a decent amount and ask that much for the content per year.

By keeping the most PPVs you are just driving up the price for the content in the future. Phone Post 3.0

And they can drive up the price more with a larger fanbase, which is what they need well before the end of their 7 year deal with Fox. What I was proposing is moving a few PPVs to (big) Fox, because Fox is where they get by far the most exposure to casual fans and it's their best "gateway" for them. They need those to keep fueling their PPVs as it is. They can still put their 8-10 biggest cards of the year instead of their 13 biggest, and those extra Fox cards can funnel in more fans.

12/20/14 2:49 PM
11/19/13
Posts: 1152
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much -
ISuckDosBalls - Are Dutch and Logic the same person? Phone Post 3.0
Nope, just two smart guys who like to make fun of the idiots on the UG.

Reminder if you don't have fight pass, buy it now to watch two great prelim fights tomorrow. It also makes a great Xmas gift for a loved one and it's only $9.99! Phone Post 3.0
Um... no thanks. I'd rather not give the UFC anymore. Thanks though Dana. Phone Post 3.0
12/20/14 2:56 PM
2/28/07
Posts: 20402
teamquestnorth - Haulport doesn't understand that the Ufc makes over half their money off non ppv Phone Post 3.0

My fren, I am extremely aware of the fact that a good chunk of their revs come from tv deals domestic and abroad. I am also acutely aware that a 47% drop in PPV buys this year resulted in a 40% drop in EARNINGS. That is a huge impact and it is all tied to PPVs because the tv deals are pretty static and Moody's even mentioned the PPV loss as the cause of earnings drop.

That means that Zuffa still relies HEAVILY on PPV as their MAIN SOURCE of revenues and PROFITS (their is probably a much better profit margin on PPV events because the overhead is the same as a tv event but the revs generated are greater). This also means that, at best, their 2012-2014 revs are equal to (probably lower than) their revs from 2009-2010 since PPV is what drives their business still and their earnings are DEFINITELY lower than 2009-2010 because they weren't all over the world and didn't put on half the shows they are doing now.

And unlike the WWE, the UFC tv programming does not generate great ratings (I think the RAW show is still one of the most highly rated weeklies around) so it's not like FOX or anyone else is clamoring to pay them a ton more once their contracts are up.

In summary:

- PPV is main source of revs and it is collapsing in on itself like a supernova turning into a black hole.
- UFC programming ratings SUCK DONKEY DICK and that is not going to make up for all these lost revs and will probably keep them lower than 2009-2010.
- If this lawsuit actually hurts them financially Frank Lorenzo and Dana are done sooner rather than later...

And here's a pic of how I feel about all that (if a blue could help out):

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/283/8/7/36ib5lw_gif_1__by_haulport-d82awuw.gif
12/20/14 3:03 PM
8/19/14
Posts: 243
They need one channel that is UFC only and includes all events for 20 bucks a month. It must also be available online with every single zuffa owned fight available the day after the fights happen. This is the route HBO is going and its going to fucking explode.

Trying to keep up with fights on FS1, FOX, PPV, and fight pass while getting most interviews from youtube is fucking bullshit.
12/20/14 3:05 PM
2/18/14
Posts: 1226
Pretty simple to see why their PPV fell off

No GSP
No Anderson Silva
No Cain Velasqueaz
1 Jon Jones Fight
1 Chris Weidman fight
1 Anthony Pettis fight

When you combine those assets, you're talking 3.2 Million PPV Buys cut from last year alone.

PPV may be a dying business, but the next 3 months will be very telling

UFC 181 did 380-400K

We'll see what UFC 182, 183, and 184 produce.

I think with these 3 PPV's alone, they'll produce 75% of the PPV revenue they produced from all of this year
12/20/14 3:08 PM
2/18/14
Posts: 1227
There can be arguments that PPV is dead, but I disagree. PPV's alive, they just don't have the fights we want to see.

Mayweather vs Maidana was the perfect example, nobody wanted to see that fight, and nobody sure as hell wanted to see the rematch.

But they still did 1.8 million combine, so there's defiantly a market. UFC 181 did very well, UFC 175 did well, what did they have in common? Fights we wanted
12/20/14 3:17 PM
12/10/12
Posts: 10690
Let's say the ufc total ppv buys a year is 5 million. Multiply that by 60 dollars. That's 300 million a year fox would have to pay the ufc for the rights to all of their shows.

Imagine the viewership a fight like jones/dc would have it it were on big fox and was promoted properly. Total Veiwership would be incredible. The money the ufc loses would come back 2 fold with the new viewership alone.

Ppv is a dying breed and the ufc needs to realize this. I love fights but even I won't pay 60 buck for every ppv Phone Post 3.0
12/20/14 3:54 PM
2/28/07
Posts: 20403
ISuckDosBalls - 
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much -
ISuckDosBalls - Are Dutch and Logic the same person? Phone Post 3.0
Nope, just two smart guys who like to make fun of the idiots on the UG.

Reminder if you don't have fight pass, buy it now to watch two great prelim fights tomorrow. It also makes a great Xmas gift for a loved one and it's only $9.99! Phone Post 3.0
Um... no thanks. I'd rather not give the UFC anymore. Thanks though Dana. Phone Post 3.0

LOL the sad thing is that I'm pretty convinced that MMALOGIC is some dipshit PR dude who works for Zuffa and Dutch is just a random troll following MMALOGIC's lead.
12/20/14 3:57 PM
2/28/07
Posts: 20404
Barrington Levy - They need one channel that is UFC only and includes all events for 20 bucks a month. It must also be available online with every single zuffa owned fight available the day after the fights happen. This is the route HBO is going and its going to fucking explode.

Trying to keep up with fights on FS1, FOX, PPV, and fight pass while getting most interviews from youtube is fucking bullshit.

This man understands the future of tv...

Only thing is that Zuffa offers a boring product and that is what is driving down their ratings and buys. Can't fix that just by consolidating their programming.
12/20/14 3:59 PM
2/28/07
Posts: 20405
potato623 - Pretty simple to see why their PPV fell off

No GSP
No Anderson Silva
No Cain Velasqueaz
1 Jon Jones Fight
1 Chris Weidman fight
1 Anthony Pettis fight

When you combine those assets, you're talking 3.2 Million PPV Buys cut from last year alone.

PPV may be a dying business, but the next 3 months will be very telling

UFC 181 did 380-400K

We'll see what UFC 182, 183, and 184 produce.

I think with these 3 PPV's alone, they'll produce 75% of the PPV revenue they produced from all of this year

This is the most absurdly optimistic thing I have heard on this thread so far.
12/20/14 3:59 PM
2/28/07
Posts: 20406
And thanks thatonedude for the pic post!
12/20/14 4:00 PM
2/28/07
Posts: 20407
The Brotorious B.I.G - Let's say the ufc total ppv buys a year is 5 million. Multiply that by 60 dollars. That's 300 million a year fox would have to pay the ufc for the rights to all of their shows.

Imagine the viewership a fight like jones/dc would have it it were on big fox and was promoted properly. Total Veiwership would be incredible. The money the ufc loses would come back 2 fold with the new viewership alone.

Ppv is a dying breed and the ufc needs to realize this. I love fights but even I won't pay 60 buck for every ppv Phone Post 3.0

Zuffa only sees 47%-53% of the PPV totals. The PPV providers take roughly half. But that is still a big number that they will not find from FOX ($150mm a year)
12/20/14 4:06 PM
3/25/12
Posts: 238
shaqitup -
MMALOGIC - 
thatonedude - 
MMALOGIC - 
shaqitup - 
MMALOGIC - 

It's called a transition.

You cant enjoy both ppv profits and sports rights (and/or subscription fees)   There is a transition going on right now.

PPV numbers will rebound this year but will not likely be back to 2013 levels. Either you maximize sports rights fees/subscription fees or you maximize ppv.  You cant do both.

 


when you say subscription fee are you talking about their online service that nobody paid for?

Im talking about the UFC network in mexico which is a 24 hour UFC subscription network.


could you fill me in I genuinely don't know, but Mexico counts towards the ppv buy rate when they give those numbers? I always thought that was just the US.

 

Zuffa has a 24 hour spanish language subscription network that launched in mexico and launching in every other spanish speaking country. it costs around 12.95 to 14.95/mo and you get everything (ppv's, fight nightts, tuf, etc...)

 

There is no ppv in mexico so they count in the ppv numers.  USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are ppv countries.

PPV will likely go away and be replaced by sports rights fees within the next 5 years.


So how would a subscription based system in Mexico possibly affect the ppv numbers in the US and Canada.

Are Aus and NZ really PPV? and if so i doubt they're counted or even close to the same price.

Who is paying $65 to watch a PPV event at 10 am.
Um.... Australians!

It feels normal for us to watch UFC events on Sunday. It's actually really good. I have a few beers and a BBQ with mates for Sunday lunch. Only issue is when it clashes with the cricket!! Phone Post 3.0
12/20/14 5:09 PM
11/18/11
Posts: 7016
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - 
Megatherium -
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - 
thatonedude - 
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - Next year will be huge improvement over this year in PPV numbers.

Cormier vs Jones

Silva vs Diaz

Weidman vs Belfort
Ronda vs Zingano

Lawler vs Hendricks III

Cain vs Werdum

CM Pubk debut

All signs also point to GSP and Brock returns

Should be a big rebound in PPV sales, 2014 was shitty with all the injuries and Brock/GSP leaving.

Let's bump this thread next January and talk.

Good news is all PPVs should get purchased by fox or whoever does the new TV deal within 5 years s it won't matter. Sorry Haulport, UFC isn't going away, only going to get bigger. Phone Post 3.0

they do give you talking points! I knew it

Nope, just pointing out the facts.

If anyone really thinks UFC PPV is dying and wants to make a bet, I'll bet any blue name or long time UG poster that the UFC sells more PPVs in 2015 then they did 2014. Any takers?

Sure I'll bet you a funny name change if you like. I see the whole industry cratering in North America. We`re talking about North American ppv buys increasing, is that right?
Yes sir

Same terms as one above, deal? Phone Post 3.0

Yeah, sounds good to me. Are we accepting the Meltzer list for 2015 as the definitive then? He seems to be considered the gold standard.
If so, we should post his final list for 2014 in this thread.
12/20/14 5:10 PM
12/17/07
Posts: 4787
Honestly most of the free Fox events have been bigger than the PPVs with a few exceptions. They are kind of doing it to themselves. Phone Post 3.0
12/20/14 5:26 PM
9/11/13
Posts: 1331
The Shockmaster - 
MMALOGIC - 
thatonedude - 
MMALOGIC - 
shaqitup - 
MMALOGIC - 

It's called a transition.

You cant enjoy both ppv profits and sports rights (and/or subscription fees)   There is a transition going on right now.

PPV numbers will rebound this year but will not likely be back to 2013 levels. Either you maximize sports rights fees/subscription fees or you maximize ppv.  You cant do both.

 


when you say subscription fee are you talking about their online service that nobody paid for?

Im talking about the UFC network in mexico which is a 24 hour UFC subscription network.


could you fill me in I genuinely don't know, but Mexico counts towards the ppv buy rate when they give those numbers? I always thought that was just the US.

 

Zuffa has a 24 hour spanish language subscription network that launched in mexico and launching in every other spanish speaking country. it costs around 12.95 to 14.95/mo and you get everything (ppv's, fight nightts, tuf, etc...)

 

There is no ppv in mexico so they count in the ppv numers.  USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are ppv countries.

PPV will likely go away and be replaced by sports rights fees within the next 5 years.


And this right here is why I support streaming and downloading UFC pay-per-views.

A rich Mexican can get everything for $12.95 and a poor Canadian needs to pay $70 or more.

What a joke.

Seriously. How can something be WORTH $12/month and at the same time $70/month? Fuck that.
12/20/14 7:03 PM
1/26/08
Posts: 9023
Megatherium -
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - 
Megatherium -
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - 
thatonedude - 
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much - Next year will be huge improvement over this year in PPV numbers.

Cormier vs Jones

Silva vs Diaz

Weidman vs Belfort
Ronda vs Zingano

Lawler vs Hendricks III

Cain vs Werdum

CM Pubk debut

All signs also point to GSP and Brock returns

Should be a big rebound in PPV sales, 2014 was shitty with all the injuries and Brock/GSP leaving.

Let's bump this thread next January and talk.

Good news is all PPVs should get purchased by fox or whoever does the new TV deal within 5 years s it won't matter. Sorry Haulport, UFC isn't going away, only going to get bigger. Phone Post 3.0

they do give you talking points! I knew it

Nope, just pointing out the facts.

If anyone really thinks UFC PPV is dying and wants to make a bet, I'll bet any blue name or long time UG poster that the UFC sells more PPVs in 2015 then they did 2014. Any takers?

Sure I'll bet you a funny name change if you like. I see the whole industry cratering in North America. We`re talking about North American ppv buys increasing, is that right?
Yes sir

Same terms as one above, deal? Phone Post 3.0

Yeah, sounds good to me. Are we accepting the Meltzer list for 2015 as the definitive then? He seems to be considered the gold standard.
If so, we should post his final list for 2014 in this thread.
Ha we will use his numbers Phone Post 3.0
12/20/14 7:03 PM
1/26/08
Posts: 9024
^ya, we will use his numbers* Phone Post 3.0
12/20/14 7:05 PM
1/26/08
Posts: 9025
Haulport -
The Brotorious B.I.G - Let's say the ufc total ppv buys a year is 5 million. Multiply that by 60 dollars. That's 300 million a year fox would have to pay the ufc for the rights to all of their shows.

Imagine the viewership a fight like jones/dc would have it it were on big fox and was promoted properly. Total Veiwership would be incredible. The money the ufc loses would come back 2 fold with the new viewership alone.

Ppv is a dying breed and the ufc needs to realize this. I love fights but even I won't pay 60 buck for every ppv Phone Post 3.0

Zuffa only sees 47%-53% of the PPV totals. The PPV providers take roughly half. But that is still a big number that they will not find from FOX ($150mm a year)
Fox and ESPN could easily offer that much more then the current Fox deal pays for all the programming. ESPN will pay it, just to cripple FS1. Phone Post 3.0