UnderGround Forums Shogun is the second best LHW of all time

7/28/20 1:20 PM
1/16/12
Posts: 6762

And first for fighters who never tested positive. 
 

this is a guy who won the Pride GP against the best LHW out of all Orgs. UFC didn't have the best LHWs at that time. He came in as a dark horse and destroyed everyone.

 

Then against all odds he had career ending knee injuries and surgeries. While he failed his UFC debut he came back and went on a winning spree until he got robbed against Machida. He exposed Machida then ended the Machida era with a finish. 
 

Against all odds when everyone was fighting counting him out he won. Making him the only fighter to win a UFC & Pride champ. 
 

his notable wins

Lil Nog 3x

Corey Anderson 

Teh Huna (4-1)

Vera 

Griffin 

Machida

Liddell 

Coleman

Overeem x2

Randleman

Makamura

Diabete

Arona

Rampage 

Gono 

Cyborg 

 

This man is a fucking legend 

7/28/20 1:26 PM
6/27/05
Posts: 28975

The longevity is amazing - unfortunately he’s been in ten too many wars.

7/28/20 1:43 PM
3/2/12
Posts: 2950

<3 Shogun

7/28/20 1:44 PM
2/17/03
Posts: 15890

I think there are some other contenders, including Daniel Cormier, but Shogun is definitely in the running. An all-time great.

It's not really accurate to say that he was the only person to win PRIDE and UFC titles though, right? Someone can correct me if my history is wrong. He won the PRIDE GP, but was never the PRIDE champion. Mark Coleman did the same thing. Dan Henderson was a PRIDE champion and a UFC tournament winner.

I think that the closest person to come to the double titles was Big Nog, who was a PRIDE champion and a UFC interim champion.

7/28/20 2:42 PM
7/15/04
Posts: 60175

DC would have ragdolled and beat the ever living shit out of Shogun at any stage.

Multiple time PED abuser Jon Jones was the roadblock to DC being seen as the greatest LHW of all time and maybe GOAT in general. 

Jon Jones talent is undeniable of course. And Shogun is badass and had a great career. One of the best no doubt. 

7/28/20 3:05 PM
12/8/12
Posts: 2173

Shoguns resumè shits on Cormiers at 205

7/28/20 4:07 PM
11/5/13
Posts: 5472

Shogun would beat Cormier prime vs prime

7/28/20 5:37 PM
2/17/03
Posts: 15895
Doc_Watson - 

Shogun would beat Cormier prime vs prime


Maybe in a ring, but I doubt it. Shogun has a great bottom game that makes up for his good but not great TDD. But, he's not sweeping DC. DC is an absolute rock on top.

Shogun didn't really have one punch KO power (Machida 2 notwithstanding). And he's not going to ragdoll DC like he did Rampage.

7/28/20 5:47 PM
4/20/08
Posts: 23728
TexDeuce -

DC would have ragdolled and beat the ever living shit out of Shogun at any stage.

Multiple time PED abuser Jon Jones was the roadblock to DC being seen as the greatest LHW of all time and maybe GOAT in general. 

Jon Jones talent is undeniable of course. And Shogun is badass and had a great career. One of the best no doubt. 

I have my doubts in a pride ring and with those rules. A lot of fighters would have folded

7/28/20 6:14 PM
1/7/09
Posts: 4860
Doc_Watson -

Shogun would beat Cormier prime vs prime

Lol

7/28/20 6:20 PM
3/18/12
Posts: 7488

DC is easily the second best LHW of all time. If Jones fought clean then DC would be in the running for the GOAT lhw. 

Edited: 7/28/20 6:29 PM
7/6/17
Posts: 191
wiggum -
Doc_Watson - 

Shogun would beat Cormier prime vs prime


Maybe in a ring, but I doubt it. Shogun has a great bottom game that makes up for his good but not great TDD. But, he's not sweeping DC. DC is an absolute rock on top.

Shogun didn't really have one punch KO power (Machida 2 notwithstanding). And he's not going to ragdoll DC like he did Rampage.

Yeah, DC has really good control on top, and while shogun is good on bottom he is not as good as other black belts of bjj. 

That said, PRIDE rules were good to avoid to much of advantage they have in the UFC, knees and kicks to a grounded opponent makes you be careful while going for the TD. North South was a dangerous position in PRIDE. 

7/28/20 6:30 PM
7/6/17
Posts: 192

Was a*

7/28/20 6:38 PM
8/6/06
Posts: 51390

To me, Jones is disqualified from any GOAT discussion. Now that he's under USADA testing, he's lost 2 of his last 3 fights in my opinion. You can just see that he's nowhere near the level he once was.

7/28/20 7:10 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 19408
TexDeuce -

DC would have ragdolled and beat the ever living shit out of Shogun at any stage.

Multiple time PED abuser Jon Jones was the roadblock to DC being seen as the greatest LHW of all time and maybe GOAT in general. 

Jon Jones talent is undeniable of course. And Shogun is badass and had a great career. One of the best no doubt. 

DC would’ve got slept by Prime Shogun. Fuck outta here. 

Edited: 7/28/20 7:11 PM
8/6/06
Posts: 51391

Jon is in his physical and mental prime. This should be the best Jon Jones there's been. He had to get off the shit though, so now we have the worst Jon Jones there's been, because he's fighting natural for probably the first time since moving from Bombsquad to Jacksons.

7/28/20 7:11 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 19409
ABCTT_HeHitsMeBecauseHeLovesMe -

To me, Jones is disqualified from any GOAT discussion. Now that he's under USADA testing, he's lost 2 of his last 3 fights in my opinion. You can just see that he's nowhere near the level he once was.

Grow up and become a man someday. 
Everyone takes steroids.

Sick of this girly ass argument.

7/28/20 7:15 PM
8/6/06
Posts: 51392
multiculturaljoseph -
ABCTT_HeHitsMeBecauseHeLovesMe -

To me, Jones is disqualified from any GOAT discussion. Now that he's under USADA testing, he's lost 2 of his last 3 fights in my opinion. You can just see that he's nowhere near the level he once was.

Grow up and become a man someday. 
Everyone takes steroids.

Sick of this girly ass argument.

No, just because you're delusional, and make the delusional assumption that every fighter is on peds, doesn't make it the truth. That's just the stupid shit you say to excuse your favorite fighter's blatant, ongoing cheating. If everybody is on PEDs, then why is it only a small minority that get caught? 

7/28/20 7:16 PM
8/6/06
Posts: 51393

If Jon's just doing what they're all doing, why has he been busted like 3 times, while the vast majority of fighters have been busted 0 times? Is Jon just that fucking stupid?

7/28/20 7:17 PM
11/10/16
Posts: 337

Agree with the OP

7/28/20 7:25 PM
2/17/03
Posts: 15898
Liet - 
wiggum -
Doc_Watson - 

Shogun would beat Cormier prime vs prime


Maybe in a ring, but I doubt it. Shogun has a great bottom game that makes up for his good but not great TDD. But, he's not sweeping DC. DC is an absolute rock on top.

Shogun didn't really have one punch KO power (Machida 2 notwithstanding). And he's not going to ragdoll DC like he did Rampage.

Yeah, DC has really good control on top, and while shogun is good on bottom he is not as good as other black belts of bjj. 

That said, PRIDE rules were good to avoid to much of advantage they have in the UFC, knees and kicks to a grounded opponent makes you be careful while going for the TD. North South was a dangerous position in PRIDE. 


DC exclusively shoots shots that don't require penetration steps. He never goes to his knees. Throws and high singles and high head outside singles.

No reason for him to fear soccer kicks.

7/28/20 7:26 PM
2/17/03
Posts: 15899
multiculturaljoseph - 
TexDeuce -

DC would have ragdolled and beat the ever living shit out of Shogun at any stage.

Multiple time PED abuser Jon Jones was the roadblock to DC being seen as the greatest LHW of all time and maybe GOAT in general. 

Jon Jones talent is undeniable of course. And Shogun is badass and had a great career. One of the best no doubt. 

DC would’ve got slept by Prime Shogun. Fuck outta here. 


DC who ate Prime Rumble's best shot is going to get slept by a guy with very few straight standing up KOs?

7/28/20 7:36 PM
12/23/02
Posts: 5655

I would definitely put Shogun ahead of DC just on resume alone.

7/28/20 7:46 PM
2/17/03
Posts: 15900
ChimpFL - 

I would definitely put Shogun ahead of DC just on resume alone.


Shogun has the better resume at 205. I think it's fair to say that the second best resume at 205 is between Wand and Shogun. But, DC was the better fighter, IMO.

Edited: 7/28/20 7:50 PM
7/15/04
Posts: 60193

I have to question anyone that really thinks Shogun beats DC. You are off your fucking rocker. It is laughable.

DC beats Shogun and makes it look easy.