UnderGround Forums Should Rampage Arona powerbomb be illegal?

5/13/19 1:30 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 59526

I remember seeing that and was impressed and I wanted Rampage to win.  In hind sight I think that slam could have killed or severely injured someone.  There was no way of Arona protecting himself once Rampage lifted him above his waist.  Rampage had him above his head because of his ghetto strength.

5/13/19 1:31 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 59527

 

5/13/19 1:38 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 6967
Should it be illegal? No.
5/13/19 1:45 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 46470
Tim Duncan -

I remember seeing that and was impressed and I wanted Rampage to win.  In hind sight I think that slam could have killed or severely injured someone.  There was no way of Arona protecting himself once Rampage lifted him above his waist.  Rampage had him above his head because of his ghetto strength.

Arona could have hooked a leg with an arm as he was getting lifted or he could have opened the triangle. Both are defenses that would have prevented getting powerbombed to HELLLLL!!!

5/13/19 1:49 PM
7/30/03
Posts: 6927

Nope, there is a difference between slamming and spiking.

 

And anyone who believes that Andrade wasn’t able to control the trajectory of that takedown is wrong.

5/13/19 1:52 PM
10/10/14
Posts: 183


Same goes for Arona in this instance. He should've just let go of the triangle when Rampage started to lift him but instead he actually *sits up* which made that slam even more brutal, (and the accidental clashing of Quinton's forehead against his chin didn't help either)

5/13/19 1:55 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 75543

Is BJM correct in saying there's no illegal slam when a sub is being attempted? That doesn't sound right at all. Not saying he's wrong, but it sure sounds wrong to me. A rule doesn't apply because there's a sub going on? How long has this been a thing?

5/13/19 1:57 PM
5/17/01
Posts: 25939
Calhoon - 

Nope, there is a difference between slamming and spiking.

 

And anyone who believes that Andrade wasn’t able to control the trajectory of that takedown is wrong.


Rose was attempting a submission. Jessica can slam her any way she wants at that point according to the rules.

5/13/19 1:59 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 75544

As for OP; the slam shouldn't be illegal, but the headbutt...

5/13/19 1:59 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 75545
Racer X -
Calhoon - 

Nope, there is a difference between slamming and spiking.

 

And anyone who believes that Andrade wasn’t able to control the trajectory of that takedown is wrong.


Rose was attempting a submission. Jessica can slam her any way she wants at that point according to the rules.

Thank you for clarification.

5/13/19 2:01 PM
10/10/14
Posts: 185
Floppy Divac -

Is BJM correct in saying there's no illegal slam when a sub is being attempted? That doesn't sound right at all. Not saying he's wrong, but it sure sounds wrong to me. A rule doesn't apply because there's a sub going on? How long has this been a thing?

Hm, well considering he was instrumental in conceiving the Unified Rules of MMA, he probably is correct in saying that, yes

5/13/19 2:08 PM
3/16/15
Posts: 23764

The powerbomb did not knock Arona out.  Rampage headbutted him when Arona's head hit the mat.  That was the KO.

5/13/19 2:11 PM
5/15/15
Posts: 1453
Floppy Divac -

Is BJM correct in saying there's no illegal slam when a sub is being attempted? That doesn't sound right at all. Not saying he's wrong, but it sure sounds wrong to me. A rule doesn't apply because there's a sub going on? How long has this been a thing?

You know he literally wrote some of the rule book right?

5/13/19 2:14 PM
7/30/03
Posts: 6928
Racer X -
Calhoon - 

Nope, there is a difference between slamming and spiking.

 

And anyone who believes that Andrade wasn’t able to control the trajectory of that takedown is wrong.


Rose was attempting a submission. Jessica can slam her any way she wants at that point according to the rules.

I am fully aware that that is the rule BJM pointed to. As I said in another thread the rule is poorly written. On top of that it is a stupid rule. If you want to eliminate the spiking then eliminate all spiking. Truth be told Andrade had broken the kimura lock anyway before she went for the slam. Not to say that Rose didn’t secure the hold again but I’m just saying she went for the spike to finish the fight and once she secured the head to the outside and lifted she is the one who had total control of how Rose landed and the kimura was not a threat at all. She spiked her on purpose and that imo should be illegal if spikes are illegal. There should be no exception for spiking just because there is a submission threat.

Edited: 5/13/19 2:17 PM
7/30/03
Posts: 6929
moogin83 -
Floppy Divac -

Is BJM correct in saying there's no illegal slam when a sub is being attempted? That doesn't sound right at all. Not saying he's wrong, but it sure sounds wrong to me. A rule doesn't apply because there's a sub going on? How long has this been a thing?

You know he literally wrote some of the rule book right?

That rule was poorly written. Ask BJM if he believes intentional spiking should be legal. I’d like to hear his answer to that.

5/13/19 2:19 PM
11/18/14
Posts: 3352
Floppy Divac -

Is BJM correct in saying there's no illegal slam when a sub is being attempted? That doesn't sound right at all. Not saying he's wrong, but it sure sounds wrong to me. A rule doesn't apply because there's a sub going on? How long has this been a thing?

the poster with scant regard as to whom he is pictured with, is correct

suddenly, all bets are off in terms of safety! suddenly the slamming fighter doesn't need to worry if their opponent comes down, with full force, on a bent neck?

if so, seems reasonable to review this rule.

bonus paragraphs: ... when does the lifting/lifted fighter need to break their grip on the submission, before they are again protected? if they are holding it until they realise they are airborne, and let go, what happens if their neck comes down at an angle that's likely to cause serious damage?

(Ms Andrade did not seem to have a plan b once she lifted Rose. it was a swift action. Rose was gonna get a bad slam whether she released or not! does it follow you are vulnerable to a spike if you ever try a standing submission?) food for thought.

5/13/19 2:26 PM
5/11/05
Posts: 3147

I have a powerbomb KO win. Kid was trying to triangle choke me and kept punching me in the face. I picked him up over my head and jump-slammed him to the ground where he turned into a puddle of jelly.

Andrade was being attacked and responded properly. I love Rose and wanted her to win. Sometimes it sucks when pretty girls fight and ugly things happen.

5/13/19 2:45 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 58806
Calhoon - 
Racer X -
Calhoon - 

Nope, there is a difference between slamming and spiking.

 

And anyone who believes that Andrade wasn’t able to control the trajectory of that takedown is wrong.


Rose was attempting a submission. Jessica can slam her any way she wants at that point according to the rules.

I am fully aware that that is the rule BJM pointed to. As I said in another thread the rule is poorly written. On top of that it is a stupid rule. If you want to eliminate the spiking then eliminate all spiking. Truth be told Andrade had broken the kimura lock anyway before she went for the slam. Not to say that Rose didn’t secure the hold again but I’m just saying she went for the spike to finish the fight and once she secured the head to the outside and lifted she is the one who had total control of how Rose landed and the kimura was not a threat at all. She spiked her on purpose and that imo should be illegal if spikes are illegal. There should be no exception for spiking just because there is a submission threat.


Andrade said in her post fight presser that she was trying to slam Rose on her back and then go for gnp. And Rose would have landed on her back like any other single leg high crotch had she not held onto the kimura.

I don’t consider that a spike and u are going down a slippery slope for how slams can end up when it is not incomplete control of the thrower. Not only did Rose elect to hold onto the grip which prevented her from flipping over to her back (see DC Barnett/Gus), people getting thrown also try to manuever out of throw and get injured as a result. In a case like that, it’s not fair to put it on Andrade. She even said she was going for the slam but was surprised that Rose held on causing that kind of landing. DC also broke or down.

I think we also need to define spiking. The way Rose landed was similar to Fedor/Randleman not like Nog/Sapp. Completely diff techniques and trajectories just as a high crotch is not a pile driver
5/13/19 2:48 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 58807
mindless optimism - 
Floppy Divac -

Is BJM correct in saying there's no illegal slam when a sub is being attempted? That doesn't sound right at all. Not saying he's wrong, but it sure sounds wrong to me. A rule doesn't apply because there's a sub going on? How long has this been a thing?

the poster with scant regard as to whom he is pictured with, is correct

suddenly, all bets are off in terms of safety! suddenly the slamming fighter doesn't need to worry if their opponent comes down, with full force, on a bent neck?

if so, seems reasonable to review this rule.

bonus paragraphs: ... when does the lifting/lifted fighter need to break their grip on the submission, before they are again protected? if they are holding it until they realise they are airborne, and let go, what happens if their neck comes down at an angle that's likely to cause serious damage?

(Ms Andrade did not seem to have a plan b once she lifted Rose. it was a swift action. Rose was gonna get a bad slam whether she released or not! does it follow you are vulnerable to a spike if you ever try a standing submission?) food for thought.


I don’t think understand. When u life someone with a single leg high crotch, it is a circular motion, a flip, not up and down like pile driver. Rose’s grip is what prevented her being flipped over.
5/13/19 2:49 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 58808
Lol at auto spell above. I meant that I don’t think u understand and when u LIFT someone...
5/13/19 2:49 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 59530
grandchampion -

I have a powerbomb KO win. Kid was trying to triangle choke me and kept punching me in the face. I picked him up over my head and jump-slammed him to the ground where he turned into a puddle of jelly.

Andrade was being attacked and responded properly. I love Rose and wanted her to win. Sometimes it sucks when pretty girls fight and ugly things happen.

Video?

Edited: 5/13/19 2:52 PM
4/25/11
Posts: 2695

When someone lifts you from closed guard, arm bar or triangle like that you are taught to hook the inside of the leg if you want to hold on to them without getting smashed into the ground or abandon the move. Rose and Around probably know that, but they just caught up in the heat of the moment.

5/13/19 2:54 PM
7/30/03
Posts: 6930
Wasa-B -
Calhoon - 
Racer X -
Calhoon - 

Nope, there is a difference between slamming and spiking.

 

And anyone who believes that Andrade wasn’t able to control the trajectory of that takedown is wrong.


Rose was attempting a submission. Jessica can slam her any way she wants at that point according to the rules.

I am fully aware that that is the rule BJM pointed to. As I said in another thread the rule is poorly written. On top of that it is a stupid rule. If you want to eliminate the spiking then eliminate all spiking. Truth be told Andrade had broken the kimura lock anyway before she went for the slam. Not to say that Rose didn’t secure the hold again but I’m just saying she went for the spike to finish the fight and once she secured the head to the outside and lifted she is the one who had total control of how Rose landed and the kimura was not a threat at all. She spiked her on purpose and that imo should be illegal if spikes are illegal. There should be no exception for spiking just because there is a submission threat.


Andrade said in her post fight presser that she was trying to slam Rose on her back and then go for gnp. And Rose would have landed on her back like any other single leg high crotch had she not held onto the kimura.

I don’t consider that a spike and u are going down a slippery slope for how slams can end up when it is not incomplete control of the thrower. Not only did Rose elect to hold onto the grip which prevented her from flipping over to her back (see DC Barnett/Gus), people getting thrown also try to manuever out of throw and get injured as a result. In a case like that, it’s not fair to put it on Andrade. She even said she was going for the slam but was surprised that Rose held on causing that kind of landing. DC also broke or down.

I think we also need to define spiking. The way Rose landed was similar to Fedor/Randleman not like Nog/Sapp. Completely diff techniques and trajectories just as a high crotch is not a pile driver

Listen to what she said in her post fight interview before being prepped for her press conference for the real story.

5/13/19 2:58 PM
7/30/03
Posts: 6931
Wasa-B -
Calhoon - 
Racer X -
Calhoon - 

Nope, there is a difference between slamming and spiking.

 

And anyone who believes that Andrade wasn’t able to control the trajectory of that takedown is wrong.


Rose was attempting a submission. Jessica can slam her any way she wants at that point according to the rules.

I am fully aware that that is the rule BJM pointed to. As I said in another thread the rule is poorly written. On top of that it is a stupid rule. If you want to eliminate the spiking then eliminate all spiking. Truth be told Andrade had broken the kimura lock anyway before she went for the slam. Not to say that Rose didn’t secure the hold again but I’m just saying she went for the spike to finish the fight and once she secured the head to the outside and lifted she is the one who had total control of how Rose landed and the kimura was not a threat at all. She spiked her on purpose and that imo should be illegal if spikes are illegal. There should be no exception for spiking just because there is a submission threat.


Andrade said in her post fight presser that she was trying to slam Rose on her back and then go for gnp. And Rose would have landed on her back like any other single leg high crotch had she not held onto the kimura.

I don’t consider that a spike and u are going down a slippery slope for how slams can end up when it is not incomplete control of the thrower. Not only did Rose elect to hold onto the grip which prevented her from flipping over to her back (see DC Barnett/Gus), people getting thrown also try to manuever out of throw and get injured as a result. In a case like that, it’s not fair to put it on Andrade. She even said she was going for the slam but was surprised that Rose held on causing that kind of landing. DC also broke or down.

I think we also need to define spiking. The way Rose landed was similar to Fedor/Randleman not like Nog/Sapp. Completely diff techniques and trajectories just as a high crotch is not a pile driver

Spiking is easily seen and it’s only the people who want to muddy the wasters who are pretending not to know what it is. Let that throw happen in amateur wrestling and see if they don’t know how much control Andrade had over how Rose landed and wether they consider that to be DQ material.

5/13/19 3:03 PM
7/30/03
Posts: 6932
Wasa-B -
mindless optimism - 
Floppy Divac -

Is BJM correct in saying there's no illegal slam when a sub is being attempted? That doesn't sound right at all. Not saying he's wrong, but it sure sounds wrong to me. A rule doesn't apply because there's a sub going on? How long has this been a thing?

the poster with scant regard as to whom he is pictured with, is correct

suddenly, all bets are off in terms of safety! suddenly the slamming fighter doesn't need to worry if their opponent comes down, with full force, on a bent neck?

if so, seems reasonable to review this rule.

bonus paragraphs: ... when does the lifting/lifted fighter need to break their grip on the submission, before they are again protected? if they are holding it until they realise they are airborne, and let go, what happens if their neck comes down at an angle that's likely to cause serious damage?

(Ms Andrade did not seem to have a plan b once she lifted Rose. it was a swift action. Rose was gonna get a bad slam whether she released or not! does it follow you are vulnerable to a spike if you ever try a standing submission?) food for thought.


I don’t think understand. When u life someone with a single leg high crotch, it is a circular motion, a flip, not up and down like pile driver. Rose’s grip is what prevented her being flipped over.

It should be a circular motion so that you throw them on their back but with that much control over the opponents hips you can stop the momentum and spike them on their head if you choose to. No one does this because it’s illegal, except for apparently this rule about submissions being applied, which obviously many people like myself were not even aware of. 

 

Mow that people are aware that that they can spike we will see a lot more imo.