UnderGround Forums Tai chi no can defend ANYTHING???

15 days ago
6/9/16
Posts: 8312

That right hand finds its mark almost every time. Better stick to tia chi as a recreational exercise. 

 

15 days ago
2/18/20
Posts: 314

I love traditional martial artist who have never been in a fight in their lives.

15 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 64329

Poor guys. Tai Chi is awesome. My mother loves it, so it's one of my favorite martial arts. The confusion comes from thinking it has practical value in a self-defense or combat sports circumstance. It doesn't need to. It's cool even being useless in that regard. I feel the same way about Aikido. Very cool martial art, just has no practical hand to hand value what so ever, which is fine. I don't even mind these maroons believing it, just don't use or you can get a concussion.

15 days ago
6/9/16
Posts: 8318
Kirik -

Poor guys. Tai Chi is awesome. My mother loves it, so it's one of my favorite martial arts. The confusion comes from thinking it has practical value in a self-defense or combat sports circumstance. It doesn't need to. It's cool even being useless in that regard. I feel the same way about Aikido. Very cool martial art, just has no practical hand to hand value what so ever, which is fine. I don't even mind these maroons believing it, just don't use or you can get a concussion.

 

Too bad you couldn't have imparted these words of wisdom to the clueless fellow in the video. 

15 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 16002

Not training the real tai chi.

15 days ago
8/20/03
Posts: 152933
Kirik -

Poor guys. Tai Chi is awesome. My mother loves it, so it's one of my favorite martial arts. The confusion comes from thinking it has practical value in a self-defense or combat sports circumstance. It doesn't need to. It's cool even being useless in that regard. I feel the same way about Aikido. Very cool martial art, just has no practical hand to hand value what so ever, which is fine. I don't even mind these maroons believing it, just don't use or you can get a concussion.

Now you have done it!

Some Tai Chi some where is preparing the Dim Mak for you!

 

15 days ago
1/24/16
Posts: 2622

Poor guy I don't understand how people on here celebrate whenever some old fart gets his dreams crushed. 

Edited: 15 days ago
7/2/15
Posts: 3378

I've been involved in various martial arts off and on for most of my life, and it's only been within the last couple of years that I found out that Tai Chi was actually supposed to be considered a martial art. I always thought it was just a meditative/therapeutic practice. The fact that anyone could learn this and think it has any value for self defense is mind bogling. 

15 days ago
5/8/13
Posts: 14274
Vrill -

I've been involved in various martial arts off and on for most of my life, and it's only been within the last couple of years that I found out that Tai Chi was actually supposed to be considered a martial art. I always thought it was just a meditative/therapeutic practice. The fact that anyone could learn this and think it has any value for self defense is mind bogling. 

I literally just learned it from your post.... I thought the same thing, was like a meditation or karate yoga thing haha 

15 days ago
7/2/09
Posts: 7444

I gotta admit there's a sick part of me that laughs myself senseless when I see someone get flatlined stiff as a board like that.

 

I think the value of a lot of traditional martial arts is widely misunderstood... both to the people inside the sport and those outside looking in.  The people on the outside laugh because they perceive it as a failed closed system, and because they don't see the lesson being taught.  Ironically, the people on the inside take it way too seriously... for the same reason, because they think they have a magic weapon closed system, and because they don't understand what's right under their nose.

 

When I started martial arts in TKD in 2006 (just *after* becoming aware/watching UFC), I despised the kata/taegeuk/patterns.  Why would ANYONE waste their time on that nonsense?  Actually, that's a pretty good assessment, but not perfect.  Someone who is just learning how to kick and punch gets almost nothing from that nonsense... worse yet, they might think they've got some kind of death touch, when their time would be better spent on conditioning, cardio, sparring, or even basic technique, go build up thousands of hours of kicking and become a master at *that*.

 

Only recently have I realized the value in some of these traditional parts of the sport, LOOOONG after branching out into muay thai and grappling (which were FAARRR better uses of my time, UP FRONT).  After 10-15 years of kicking and punching, I'm not going to suddenly get better at those by doing another session kicking or sparring.  But I can fine tune what I've already got by focusing on balance, footwork, movement, position, smoothness.  I'm not saying that you can't get those things from sparring.  But I'm saying that when you get to the point where that's the only thing you can improve upon, suddenly that kata nonsense starts to offer you new lessons.

 

Aside from the other things I've mentioned, TKD for me, after over 10 years doing muay thai, is about learning to play your opponent.  The kicks have NOTHING to do with it.

 

Just some perspective about tai chi and karate.  I think the lessons have been lost for a long, long time. 

 

Anyone looking at their system as a closed system is a fool, too.  Let me give you some examples of martial arts that are both dangerous, and dangerously incomplete: boxing, wrestling, muay thai. 

 

Martial arts should be about learning as much as you can, constant progress.

 

That tai chi guy getting flatlined could have just as easily been a wrestler.  It could have just as easily been that boxing guy getting his arm torn off by Royce.  Tai chi wasn't the problem with that dumbass.

15 days ago
10/1/03
Posts: 68845

Living in china for the past 3 years I can’t tell you how effing delusional most of them are in regards to this type of bs.  

15 days ago
2/24/11
Posts: 7532
dinkledorf -

Poor guy I don't understand how people on here celebrate whenever some old fart gets his dreams crushed. 

I think it’s because these old farts spread their BS to the younger generation. 

15 days ago
6/9/16
Posts: 8324
jgiveshead -

I gotta admit there's a sick part of me that laughs myself senseless when I see someone get flatlined stiff as a board like that.

 

I think the value of a lot of traditional martial arts is widely misunderstood... both to the people inside the sport and those outside looking in.  The people on the outside laugh because they perceive it as a failed closed system, and because they don't see the lesson being taught.  Ironically, the people on the inside take it way too seriously... for the same reason, because they think they have a magic weapon closed system, and because they don't understand what's right under their nose.

 

When I started martial arts in TKD in 2006 (just *after* becoming aware/watching UFC), I despised the kata/taegeuk/patterns.  Why would ANYONE waste their time on that nonsense?  Actually, that's a pretty good assessment, but not perfect.  Someone who is just learning how to kick and punch gets almost nothing from that nonsense... worse yet, they might think they've got some kind of death touch, when their time would be better spent on conditioning, cardio, sparring, or even basic technique, go build up thousands of hours of kicking and become a master at *that*.

 

Only recently have I realized the value in some of these traditional parts of the sport, LOOOONG after branching out into muay thai and grappling (which were FAARRR better uses of my time, UP FRONT).  After 10-15 years of kicking and punching, I'm not going to suddenly get better at those by doing another session kicking or sparring.  But I can fine tune what I've already got by focusing on balance, footwork, movement, position, smoothness.  I'm not saying that you can't get those things from sparring.  But I'm saying that when you get to the point where that's the only thing you can improve upon, suddenly that kata nonsense starts to offer you new lessons.

 

Aside from the other things I've mentioned, TKD for me, after over 10 years doing muay thai, is about learning to play your opponent.  The kicks have NOTHING to do with it.

 

Just some perspective about tai chi and karate.  I think the lessons have been lost for a long, long time. 

 

Anyone looking at their system as a closed system is a fool, too.  Let me give you some examples of martial arts that are both dangerous, and dangerously incomplete: boxing, wrestling, muay thai. 

 

Martial arts should be about learning as much as you can, constant progress.

 

That tai chi guy getting flatlined could have just as easily been a wrestler.  It could have just as easily been that boxing guy getting his arm torn off by Royce.  Tai chi wasn't the problem with that dumbass.

 

I think I'd summarize thusly: in the world of mixed martial arts, any single martial art will be inferior. 

 

And that's fair. But I'd still point out a couple of things:

 

1) The tai chi "master" in the OP video cannot even defend a straight right multiple times and that's really the only weapon his opponent comes at him with. It's not like the other guy was mixing all kinds of strikes or going for a takedown.


2) Can you name a single MMA contender, let alone a champion, who has tai chi as his base?

 

15 days ago
7/12/14
Posts: 1579

Isn't Tai Chi the practice of martial arts movements at a slow pace? I always thought it was designed to strengthen your smaller muscles. I never considered it to be anything remotely deadly.

15 days ago
2/27/20
Posts: 1717

China has made that MMA dude's life hell.  They reduced his social credit so much he can't take airplanes etc.  

 

The bullshido community in china is strong.

 

Edited: 15 days ago
5/19/17
Posts: 13685
Kirik - 

Poor guys. Tai Chi is awesome. My mother loves it, so it's one of my favorite martial arts. The confusion comes from thinking it has practical value in a self-defense or combat sports circumstance. It doesn't need to. It's cool even being useless in that regard. I feel the same way about Aikido. Very cool martial art, just has no practical hand to hand value what so ever, which is fine. I don't even mind these maroons believing it, just don't use or you can get a concussion.

 

I agree that Tai Chi is an interesting pursuit.  Seems good for the body, as well as the soul.

 

The problem is you described it as 'martial art'.

martial

adjective
relating to fighting or war.

 

It would be better just to promote it as exercise, to save confusing and deluded people.   

I am aware  in itss origin it was conceived as a martial art, along with Ba Gua, and Hsing-i Chuan.  But as you know these arent going to do anything in a real fight.   Yet you still get people talking about how these 'internal martial arts' are superior to 'external martial arts' (which are crude and for unsophisticated people).

15 days ago
2/27/20
Posts: 1726
DY2 -
Kirik - 

Poor guys. Tai Chi is awesome. My mother loves it, so it's one of my favorite martial arts. The confusion comes from thinking it has practical value in a self-defense or combat sports circumstance. It doesn't need to. It's cool even being useless in that regard. I feel the same way about Aikido. Very cool martial art, just has no practical hand to hand value what so ever, which is fine. I don't even mind these maroons believing it, just don't use or you can get a concussion.

 

I agree that Tai Chi is an interesting pursuit.  Seems good for the body, as well as the soul.

 

The problem is you described it as 'martial art'.

martial

adjective
relating to fighting or war.

 

It would be better just to promote it as exercise, to save confusing and deluded people.   

I am aware  in itss origin it was conceived as a martial art, along with Ba Gua, and Hsing-i Chuan.  But as you know these arent going to do anything in a real fight.   Yet you still get people talking about how these 'internal martial arts' are superior to 'external martial arts' (which are crude and for unsophisticated people).

Tai Chi is the yoga of martial arts.  

 

You aren't gonna choke anyone out doing yoga but I bet someone who is good at yoga has an advantage in BJJ just for flexibility and endurance.

 

 

These chinese dudes who never even sparred and had ignorant students kissing their ass their whole life dont know WHAT to do when their lip gets split. You can tell most of them have never been punched at ALL.

 

15 days ago
2/27/11
Posts: 11309


Edited: 15 days ago
7/2/09
Posts: 7446
Taco Muncher -
jgiveshead -

I gotta admit there's a sick part of me that laughs myself senseless when I see someone get flatlined stiff as a board like that.

 

I think the value of a lot of traditional martial arts is widely misunderstood... both to the people inside the sport and those outside looking in.  The people on the outside laugh because they perceive it as a failed closed system, and because they don't see the lesson being taught.  Ironically, the people on the inside take it way too seriously... for the same reason, because they think they have a magic weapon closed system, and because they don't understand what's right under their nose.

 

When I started martial arts in TKD in 2006 (just *after* becoming aware/watching UFC), I despised the kata/taegeuk/patterns.  Why would ANYONE waste their time on that nonsense?  Actually, that's a pretty good assessment, but not perfect.  Someone who is just learning how to kick and punch gets almost nothing from that nonsense... worse yet, they might think they've got some kind of death touch, when their time would be better spent on conditioning, cardio, sparring, or even basic technique, go build up thousands of hours of kicking and become a master at *that*.

 

Only recently have I realized the value in some of these traditional parts of the sport, LOOOONG after branching out into muay thai and grappling (which were FAARRR better uses of my time, UP FRONT).  After 10-15 years of kicking and punching, I'm not going to suddenly get better at those by doing another session kicking or sparring.  But I can fine tune what I've already got by focusing on balance, footwork, movement, position, smoothness.  I'm not saying that you can't get those things from sparring.  But I'm saying that when you get to the point where that's the only thing you can improve upon, suddenly that kata nonsense starts to offer you new lessons.

 

Aside from the other things I've mentioned, TKD for me, after over 10 years doing muay thai, is about learning to play your opponent.  The kicks have NOTHING to do with it.

 

Just some perspective about tai chi and karate.  I think the lessons have been lost for a long, long time. 

 

Anyone looking at their system as a closed system is a fool, too.  Let me give you some examples of martial arts that are both dangerous, and dangerously incomplete: boxing, wrestling, muay thai. 

 

Martial arts should be about learning as much as you can, constant progress.

 

That tai chi guy getting flatlined could have just as easily been a wrestler.  It could have just as easily been that boxing guy getting his arm torn off by Royce.  Tai chi wasn't the problem with that dumbass.

 

I think I'd summarize thusly: in the world of mixed martial arts, any single martial art will be inferior. 

 

And that's fair. But I'd still point out a couple of things:

 

1) The tai chi "master" in the OP video cannot even defend a straight right multiple times and that's really the only weapon his opponent comes at him with. It's not like the other guy was mixing all kinds of strikes or going for a takedown.


2) Can you name a single MMA contender, let alone a champion, who has tai chi as his base?

 

Let me address your points by going off on a tangent.

 

If I was redo-ing my martial arts journey, I would start with about "a year" of muay thai and BJJ... focus on the mechanics of basic kicking and punching, and learning how to feel your opponent on the ground, "position" and transitioning.  Then I would do a year of boxing and wrestling... footwork, head movement, takedowns, stepping up conditioning.  Then I would incorporate some judo and tkd.. more takedowns, and the "playing your opponent game" that I mentioned earlier. 

 

Gradually filling in holes, filling in the biggest ones first.  Note that the order is important... muay thai and bjj are going to put the greatest combat value in your hands as early as possible (some may disagree).  If I stuck TKD in there at the beginning, no doubt you'd be wasting a lot of time on useless wrist locks that you could have spent that time doing something useful.  And in general, this is a problem with the martial arts that should be put at the end of the journey... they waste a lot of time on things they're no good at doing.  Even putting TKD at the end of the journey, I wish there was a way to just show up for sparring and dare I say it, patterns, without having to do years of nonsense joint locks, stretching, and learning how to punch REALLY BADLY, first.  Let me jump rope or do some gymnastics and then join the when everyone else is getting ready to spar.  I realize how outrageously unrealistic that is... but it's how I'd design the shortest possible path to perfection.

 

I don't know anything about tai chi, really, so please don't put me in a position where you want me to defend it as a fighting system.  My gut instinct is that they have no idea what the hell they're doing.  But put me in there at the end of my martial arts journey and I'm going to tease out the useful bits.  As a mathie, I'm betting heavily against there being no useful lessons... just because they don't know what they are, doesn't mean they're not there waiting to be discovered.  Like I said, I never expected to find value in kata/patterns, but it happened... 10-15 years in.  I wish patterns had ONLY been introduced to me at that point, because there was no value in them TO ME, before... the time could have been better spent elsewhere.

 

I agree that anyone doing tai chi as a base, or "early on", is delusional.  Doesn't mean it's useless at the end.  Teach me the hadouken, bro, I'm ready.

Edited: 15 days ago
7/2/09
Posts: 7447
Tmaguru -

China has made that MMA dude's life hell.  They reduced his social credit so much he can't take airplanes etc.  

 

The bullshido community in china is strong.

 

True story bro?  If so, China asshoe.

Edited: 15 days ago
2/27/20
Posts: 1758
jgiveshead -
Tmaguru -

China has made that MMA dude's life hell.  They reduced his social credit so much he can't take airplanes etc.  

 

The bullshido community in china is strong.

 

True story bro?  If so, China asshoe.

Yes, here are some links detailing a bit of the bullshit China is putting him thru:

 

https://www.inkstonenews.com/society/chinas-mma-fighter-xu-xiaodong-fight-survival/article/3047417

 

https://qz.com/1628238/mixed-martial-arts-vs-tai-chi-case-settled-by-court-in-china/

 

China is so fucking backwards.  He is trying to elevate Martial Arts.  They would rather him allow the fake shit to continue.  

 

A bit more on his wiki 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Xiaodong

 

14 days ago
3/16/15
Posts: 26591
Tmaguru - 
jgiveshead -
Tmaguru -

China has made that MMA dude's life hell.  They reduced his social credit so much he can't take airplanes etc.  

 

The bullshido community in china is strong.

 

True story bro?  If so, China asshoe.

Yes, here are some links detailing a bit of the bullshit China is putting him thru:

 

https://www.inkstonenews.com/society/chinas-mma-fighter-xu-xiaodong-fight-survival/article/3047417

 

https://qz.com/1628238/mixed-martial-arts-vs-tai-chi-case-settled-by-court-in-china/

 

China is so fucking backwards.  He is trying to elevate Martial Arts.  They would rather him allow the fake shit to continue.  

 

A bit more on his wiki 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Xiaodong

 


I don't believe the OP's video is of Xu Xiaodong. I could be wrong, though.

That was not Combat Tai Chi, by the way. Combat Tai Chi is the ultimate martial art.
14 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 64357
DY2 - 
Kirik - 

Poor guys. Tai Chi is awesome. My mother loves it, so it's one of my favorite martial arts. The confusion comes from thinking it has practical value in a self-defense or combat sports circumstance. It doesn't need to. It's cool even being useless in that regard. I feel the same way about Aikido. Very cool martial art, just has no practical hand to hand value what so ever, which is fine. I don't even mind these maroons believing it, just don't use or you can get a concussion.

 

I agree that Tai Chi is an interesting pursuit.  Seems good for the body, as well as the soul.

 

The problem is you described it as 'martial art'.

martial

adjective
relating to fighting or war.

 

It would be better just to promote it as exercise, to save confusing and deluded people.   

I am aware  in itss origin it was conceived as a martial art, along with Ba Gua, and Hsing-i Chuan.  But as you know these arent going to do anything in a real fight.   Yet you still get people talking about how these 'internal martial arts' are superior to 'external martial arts' (which are crude and for unsophisticated people).


I agree with you. Yoga is a martial art. and is worthless by itself in terms of fighting skills, but it helps you with any combat sport, and it's popular. Tai Chi would be better if they dropped the martial arts verbiage, and focused on reality.

Edited: 14 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8949

*fixing post

14 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 12698
UltimateKeyboardWarrior -
Tmaguru - 
jgiveshead -
Tmaguru -

China has made that MMA dude's life hell.  They reduced his social credit so much he can't take airplanes etc.  

 

The bullshido community in china is strong.

 

True story bro?  If so, China asshoe.

Yes, here are some links detailing a bit of the bullshit China is putting him thru:

 

https://www.inkstonenews.com/society/chinas-mma-fighter-xu-xiaodong-fight-survival/article/3047417

 

https://qz.com/1628238/mixed-martial-arts-vs-tai-chi-case-settled-by-court-in-china/

 

China is so fucking backwards.  He is trying to elevate Martial Arts.  They would rather him allow the fake shit to continue.  

 

A bit more on his wiki 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xu_Xiaodong

 


I don't believe the OP's video is of Xu Xiaodong. I could be wrong, though.

That was not Combat Tai Chi, by the way. Combat Tai Chi is the ultimate martial art.

it's not called grand ultimate fist for nothing