UnderGround Forums Tai chi no can defend ANYTHING???

14 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 12699
HYBRID JON -

*fixing post

what does fixing post have to do with your jr year at hofstra

Edited: 14 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8950

True story... my junior year wrestling at Hofstra I stayed through the summer to teach wrestling camps and take a couple of One of the I took was Tai Chi. The professor was a real cool cat and I went in with an open mind. The first day a very attractive, sensual, hippy chick compliments on the fluidity of my motions. Her name was Anitra. She was asks to be my partner for Hands Push exercises. Turns out she was from Brown University, and lived in a ridiculous house in a ridiculous neighborhood Nassau County Long Island. After he asked me if I wanted to go to a party that was actually built into one of the pillars of the Brooklyn Bridge, it was a kind of Rave, wall painting, half pipe jumping free for all where you paid for shit with carnival tickets instead of cash (this around 1998). We each took a couple hits of extacy and had a epic time. We head back to her place where she gives me the greatest massage Ive ever had (paid for or not), with oil and hot towels. Pierced nips,clit,full ample C tits and just open to anything. After a night of literal ecstasy while on ecstasy, I wake up to the smell of her cooking omelettes downstairs. She tells me to go sit out back on their terrace where she has a table set. I walk out on the terrace as my lovely host instructs ne to, and who's doing morning Tai Chi on the terrace next door? Our Tai Chi instructor... She wasn't even registered for the she was just taking the after an invitation from her next door neighbor so happen to be the teacher. Ever since that summer Tai Chi has always been cool in my book

14 days ago
12/30/00
Posts: 1687

Tai chi is cool and all but it hasn't been used and taught as a combat art for over a century and for good reason.  Poor guys don't really have a good sense of reality about it.  That being said I plan to do it maybe in my 70s, and maybe I'll try aikido in my 60s.  That is the old martial art tradition.  You start off with the hard and tough stuff when you are young and as your body deteriorates as you get older you start moving to the softer stuff to maintain you body

14 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8951

^dig the join date

14 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 12701
HYBRID JON -

True story... my junior year wrestling at Hofstra I stayed through the summer to teach wrestling camps and take a couple of One of the I took was Tai Chi. The professor was a real cool cat and I went in with an open mind. The first day a very attractive, sensual, hippy chick compliments on the fluidity of my motions. Her name was Anitra. She was asks to be my partner for Hands Push exercises. Turns out she was from Brown University, and lived in a ridiculous house in a ridiculous neighborhood Nassau County Long Island. After he asked me if I wanted to go to a party that was actually built into one of the pillars of the Brooklyn Bridge, it was a kind of Rave, wall painting, half pipe jumping free for all where you paid for shit with carnival tickets instead of cash (this around 1998). We each took a couple hits of extacy and had a epic time. We head back to her place where she gives me the greatest massage Ive ever had (paid for or not), with oil and hot towels. Pierced nips,clit,full ample C tits and just open to anything. After a night of literal ecstasy while on ecstasy, I wake up to the smell of her cooking omelettes downstairs. She tells me to go sit out back on their terrace where she has a table set. I walk out on the terrace as my lovely host instructs ne to, and who's doing morning Tai Chi on the terrace next door? Our Tai Chi instructor... She wasn't even registered for the she was just taking the after an invitation from her next door neighbor so happen to be the teacher. Ever since that summer Tai Chi has always been cool in my book

i stand corrected. The relevance is of a magnanimously copacetic amplitude

14 days ago
2/12/16
Posts: 839

Poor little kid

14 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 27273
sun yang of practical method taiji, which is an offshoot of the original chen style, won the 67 kg muay thai gold belt in a mt event.

everyone thought karate sucked in the ufc until machida won.

many people from the early ufc thought judo sucked. now we have aoki, nastula, yoshida, dong, akiyama, karo, rousey

one of my close friends won an mma bout using military san shou, which was a gathering of kung fu styles and training them full contact. he won.

cheng man ching, a yang taiji stylist, was willing to take on all comers in a challenge match in nyc and taiwan.


it's HOW you train the art.

14 days ago
2/27/20
Posts: 1796
HYBRID JON -

True story... my junior year wrestling at Hofstra I stayed through the summer to teach wrestling camps and take a couple of One of the I took was Tai Chi. The professor was a real cool cat and I went in with an open mind. The first day a very attractive, sensual, hippy chick compliments on the fluidity of my motions. Her name was Anitra. She was asks to be my partner for Hands Push exercises. Turns out she was from Brown University, and lived in a ridiculous house in a ridiculous neighborhood Nassau County Long Island. After he asked me if I wanted to go to a party that was actually built into one of the pillars of the Brooklyn Bridge, it was a kind of Rave, wall painting, half pipe jumping free for all where you paid for shit with carnival tickets instead of cash (this around 1998). We each took a couple hits of extacy and had a epic time. We head back to her place where she gives me the greatest massage Ive ever had (paid for or not), with oil and hot towels. Pierced nips,clit,full ample C tits and just open to anything. After a night of literal ecstasy while on ecstasy, I wake up to the smell of her cooking omelettes downstairs. She tells me to go sit out back on their terrace where she has a table set. I walk out on the terrace as my lovely host instructs ne to, and who's doing morning Tai Chi on the terrace next door? Our Tai Chi instructor... She wasn't even registered for the she was just taking the after an invitation from her next door neighbor so happen to be the teacher. Ever since that summer Tai Chi has always been cool in my book

90s raves were really special.  Great story, takes me back.

 

14 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8952

Moral of the story, Tai Chi may not be best for Defend, but more for attract... If done correct, No want to defend. Glad to share gents!

13 days ago
10/11/18
Posts: 5182

Okay I read the thread but I need some background. 

 

Was that older Tai Chi feller famous or something? Known for Tai Chi proficiency?  Thought he could beat a young MMA dude then got knocked the fuck out?  

 

did I get it right?

13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 64371

Ref was concerned about the Tai Chi gentleman hurting the MMA devotee.

Also, awesome Weidler story :-)

13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 12709
yusul - sun yang of practical method taiji, which is an offshoot of the original chen style, won the 67 kg muay thai gold belt in a mt event.

everyone thought karate sucked in the ufc until machida won.

many people from the early ufc thought judo sucked. now we have aoki, nastula, yoshida, dong, akiyama, karo, rousey

one of my close friends won an mma bout using military san shou, which was a gathering of kung fu styles and training them full contact. he won.

cheng man ching, a yang taiji stylist, was willing to take on all comers in a challenge match in nyc and taiwan.


it's HOW you train the art.

Congratulations!! That’s a record for the most bullshit in a single post. Chairman mao would be proud 

13 days ago
6/6/08
Posts: 692
during my childhood i thought sinanju was real.
13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 37257
Kirik - 

Poor guys. Tai Chi is awesome. My mother loves it, so it's one of my favorite martial arts. The confusion comes from thinking it has practical value in a self-defense or combat sports circumstance. It doesn't need to. It's cool even being useless in that regard. I feel the same way about Aikido. Very cool martial art, just has no practical hand to hand value what so ever, which is fine. I don't even mind these maroons believing it, just don't use or you can get a concussion.


I agree. I like all sorts of art for different reasons. If you train in a super duper "traditional" style, just enjoy it.

Don't try to make it "functional". You have to change SO much about the art, it's just pointless.


If you like doing Plum Blossom Preying Mantis or whatever, just enjoy it. Don't even bother trying to make it Cage-worthy.

If you want those skills, cross train in something functional.

13 days ago
10/11/18
Posts: 5187
Kirik -

Ref was concerned about the Tai Chi gentleman hurting the MMA devotee.

Also, awesome Weidler story :-)

The Tai Chi gentleman is so noble...I mean, to get knocked out like that instead of proving the art's credibility...for a mere, lowly MMA devotee... that's some serious jesus type shit.

 

Hespect.  

13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 12710

true^. i think the very craziness of some of the bullshit kung fu and kenpo is what makes them attractive

13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 27278
de braco - 
yusul - sun yang of practical method taiji, which is an offshoot of the original chen style, won the 67 kg muay thai gold belt in a mt event.

everyone thought karate sucked in the ufc until machida won.

many people from the early ufc thought judo sucked. now we have aoki, nastula, yoshida, dong, akiyama, karo, rousey

one of my close friends won an mma bout using military san shou, which was a gathering of kung fu styles and training them full contact. he won.

cheng man ching, a yang taiji stylist, was willing to take on all comers in a challenge match in nyc and taiwan.


it's HOW you train the art.

Congratulations!! That’s a record for the most bullshit in a single post. Chairman mao would be proud 


chairman mao likes machida?

i'm sorry that facts can't fit into your limited narrative.

btw, i only mentioned 1 chinese person on the thread.

have a great night!
Edited: 13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 27279
sorry, 2. forgot about cheng, who was verified by a white ex-cia writer named robert smith. everything is verifiable.
Edited: 13 days ago
6/29/02
Posts: 5932

I really feel like I need to write a book on this topic.
Tai Chi Chuan (Grand Ultimate Fist) is the system that evolved into Schuai Chiao and San Da.  It's almost entirely throws and grappling.  It is a very effective fighting system if taught and practiced martially.

The problem with Eastern Martial Arts is two fold.

1) They were created in a time when tyranny made it illegal to learn to fist fight and use weapons just as today tyrannies will not allow citizens to learn to ues or carry firearms.  Therefore, fighting and grappling movements were exaggerated, hands were opened, and ideas that would never work together in a real fight were combined in forms. 

Example - the Long Fist Posture - up on one leg, arm extended.  I happen to know the arm motion is a very exaggerated combination that could be clear, jab, cross or jab, cross, liver shot or etc.  But it you'd never do it in a real fight with these exaggerated arm motions and certainly not launching up onto one leg.  But the exaggerated arm motion teaches the principle that, when changed into 3 quick arm movements, can be a number of combinations.  The one legged thing?  May as well train how well you can move onto one leg and stay rooted.  It worked for me if a sparring partner managed to grap a kick or get a single leg.  I was very hard to take down.

2)  The second part of the problem - and this is huge - is the way the Asian Teachers thought and taught.

I was lucky to have a teacher show me a movement like the one I just described, and then break it down for me a couple different ways Western He encouraged me to practice the way for art, and the practical way to learn to fight.  When 2 man drilling or sparring, he told us don't try it the way because it won't work.  Well, Traditional Eastern Teachers believed that Techer Do, Student Repeat. 

The Eastern Teachers rarely taught practical apllications.  It was the student's job to figure it out.  If the student couldn't figure it out, then the Teacher just assumed the student was a bad one.  Well this shit went on in the name of tradition for so long students who eventually branched off and became teachers ... didn't know WTF the actual applications were.

AND THAT, MY FRIENDS, IS WHY TAI CHI CHUAN AND OTHER TMS'S SEEM INEFFECTIVE.

If taught correctly, drilled correctly with partners, and preasure tested, TMAs work.  I KNOW Northern Long Fist and Tai Chi worked for me.  I fought 3 cage fights in the year 2000 - 2001, and I've had two "street fights".  I used the Chinese arts in every one - and this without relying on my State Champion ship in wrestling.

So to wrap this up - TMAs can work.  There is only one real flaw in TMAs that is the TMA's fault - it's a slower way to learn.  You learn stances and traditional drills and forms.  Then you learn realistic drills and applications.  Then you drill and spar.  In MMA you skip the tradition and culture and go straight to realistic drilling.  Therefore, if your only goal is to learrn to fight, then Kung-Fu, Tai Chi, etc is not for you.  If you want a more cultural experience, TMAs can be great for that AND learning to fight.  You just need and instructor who knows how to translate the yoga/dance like motions into practical skills.

I recommend Ramsey Dewey Q&A with The Coach.  He has fought a real Tai Chi Master and said it was amazing.  He uses a few moves from Tai Chi.  He also says for the most part, Kung-Fu is useless but he is always open minded when a new trainee comes in and does something to him in sparring that works.  Ramsey will say, Where'd you learn that?," and some times get an aanswer like, "Ba'Qua," or, "Hsing I."

13 days ago
10/11/18
Posts: 5189
DagwoodDogwoggle -

I really feel like I need to write a book on this topic.
Tai Chi Chuan (Grand Ultimate Fist) is the system that evolved into Schuai Chiao and San Da.  It's almost entirely throws and grappling.  It is a very effective fighting system if taught and practiced martially.

The problem with Eastern Martial Arts is two fold.

1) They were created in a time when tyranny made it illegal to learn to fist fight and use weapons just as today tyrannies will not allow citizens to learn to ues or carry firearms.  Therefore, fighting and grappling movements were exaggerated, hands were opened, and ideas that would never work together in a real fight were combined in forms. 

Example - the Long Fist Posture - up on one leg, arm extended.  I happen to know the arm motion is a very exaggerated combination that could be clear, jab, cross or jab, cross, liver shot or etc.  But it you'd never do it in a real fight with these exaggerated arm motions and certainly not launching up onto one leg.  But the exaggerated arm motion teaches the principle that, when changed into 3 quick arm movements, can be a number of combinations.  The one legged thing?  May as well train how well you can move onto one leg and stay rooted.  It worked for me if a sparring partner managed to grap a kick or get a single leg.  I was very hard to take down.

2)  The second part of the problem - and this is huge - is the way the Asian Teachers thought and taught.

I was lucky to have a teacher show me a movement like the one I just described, and then break it down for me a couple different ways Western He encouraged me to practice the way for art, and the practical way to learn to fight.  When 2 man drilling or sparring, he told us don't try it the way because it won't work.  Well, Traditional Eastern Teachers believed that Techer Do, Student Repeat. 

The Eastern Teachers rarely taught practical apllications.  It was the student's job to figure it out.  If the student couldn't figure it out, then the Teacher just assumed the student was a bad one.  Well this shit went on in the name of tradition for so long students who eventually branched off and became teachers ... didn't know WTF the actual applications were.

AND THAT, MY FRIENDS, IS WHY TAI CHI CHUAN AND OTHER TMS'S SEEM INEFFECTIVE.

If taught correctly, drilled correctly with partners, and preasure tested, TMAs work.  I KNOW Northern Long Fist and Tai Chi worked for me.  I fought 3 cage fights in the year 2000 - 2001, and I've had two "street fights".  I used the Chinese arts in every one - and this without relying on my State Champion ship in wrestling.

So to wrap this up - TMAs can work.  There is only one real flaw in TMAs that is the TMA's fault - it's a slower way to learn.  You learn stances and traditional drills and forms.  Then you learn realistic drills and applications.  Then you drill and spar.  In MMA you skip the tradition and culture and go straight to realistic drilling.  Therefore, if your only goal is to learrn to fight, then Kung-Fu, Tai Chi, etc is not for you.  If you want a more cultural experience, TMAs can be great for that AND learning to fight.  You just need and instructor who knows how to translate the yoga/dance like motions into practical skills.

I recommend Ramsey Dewey Q&A with The Coach.  He has fought a real Tai Chi Master and said it was amazing.  He uses a few moves from Tai Chi.  He also says for the most part, Kung-Fu is useless but he is always open minded when a new trainee comes in and does something to him in sparring that works.  Ramsey will say, Where'd you learn that?," and some times get an aanswer like, "Ba'Qua," or, "Hsing I."

Write it. VU

13 days ago
2/27/20
Posts: 1828
DagwoodDogwoggle -

I really feel like I need to write a book on this topic.
Tai Chi Chuan (Grand Ultimate Fist) is the system that evolved into Schuai Chiao and San Da.  It's almost entirely throws and grappling.  It is a very effective fighting system if taught and practiced martially.

The problem with Eastern Martial Arts is two fold.

1) They were created in a time when tyranny made it illegal to learn to fist fight and use weapons just as today tyrannies will not allow citizens to learn to ues or carry firearms.  Therefore, fighting and grappling movements were exaggerated, hands were opened, and ideas that would never work together in a real fight were combined in forms. 

Example - the Long Fist Posture - up on one leg, arm extended.  I happen to know the arm motion is a very exaggerated combination that could be clear, jab, cross or jab, cross, liver shot or etc.  But it you'd never do it in a real fight with these exaggerated arm motions and certainly not launching up onto one leg.  But the exaggerated arm motion teaches the principle that, when changed into 3 quick arm movements, can be a number of combinations.  The one legged thing?  May as well train how well you can move onto one leg and stay rooted.  It worked for me if a sparring partner managed to grap a kick or get a single leg.  I was very hard to take down.

2)  The second part of the problem - and this is huge - is the way the Asian Teachers thought and taught.

I was lucky to have a teacher show me a movement like the one I just described, and then break it down for me a couple different ways Western He encouraged me to practice the way for art, and the practical way to learn to fight.  When 2 man drilling or sparring, he told us don't try it the way because it won't work.  Well, Traditional Eastern Teachers believed that Techer Do, Student Repeat. 

The Eastern Teachers rarely taught practical apllications.  It was the student's job to figure it out.  If the student couldn't figure it out, then the Teacher just assumed the student was a bad one.  Well this shit went on in the name of tradition for so long students who eventually branched off and became teachers ... didn't know WTF the actual applications were.

AND THAT, MY FRIENDS, IS WHY TAI CHI CHUAN AND OTHER TMS'S SEEM INEFFECTIVE.

If taught correctly, drilled correctly with partners, and preasure tested, TMAs work.  I KNOW Northern Long Fist and Tai Chi worked for me.  I fought 3 cage fights in the year 2000 - 2001, and I've had two "street fights".  I used the Chinese arts in every one - and this without relying on my State Champion ship in wrestling.

So to wrap this up - TMAs can work.  There is only one real flaw in TMAs that is the TMA's fault - it's a slower way to learn.  You learn stances and traditional drills and forms.  Then you learn realistic drills and applications.  Then you drill and spar.  In MMA you skip the tradition and culture and go straight to realistic drilling.  Therefore, if your only goal is to learrn to fight, then Kung-Fu, Tai Chi, etc is not for you.  If you want a more cultural experience, TMAs can be great for that AND learning to fight.  You just need and instructor who knows how to translate the yoga/dance like motions into practical skills.

I recommend Ramsey Dewey Q&A with The Coach.  He has fought a real Tai Chi Master and said it was amazing.  He uses a few moves from Tai Chi.  He also says for the most part, Kung-Fu is useless but he is always open minded when a new trainee comes in and does something to him in sparring that works.  Ramsey will say, Where'd you learn that?," and some times get an aanswer like, "Ba'Qua," or, "Hsing I."

This is very interesting stuff but the way you break it down its like...

 

if you want to shoot a gun, Tai Chi teaches you how to make gun powder and you have to figure out the rest on your own

 

and MMA teaches you to shoot a gun

 

13 days ago
10/11/18
Posts: 5193
Tmaguru -
DagwoodDogwoggle -

I really feel like I need to write a book on this topic.
Tai Chi Chuan (Grand Ultimate Fist) is the system that evolved into Schuai Chiao and San Da.  It's almost entirely throws and grappling.  It is a very effective fighting system if taught and practiced martially.

The problem with Eastern Martial Arts is two fold.

1) They were created in a time when tyranny made it illegal to learn to fist fight and use weapons just as today tyrannies will not allow citizens to learn to ues or carry firearms.  Therefore, fighting and grappling movements were exaggerated, hands were opened, and ideas that would never work together in a real fight were combined in forms. 

Example - the Long Fist Posture - up on one leg, arm extended.  I happen to know the arm motion is a very exaggerated combination that could be clear, jab, cross or jab, cross, liver shot or etc.  But it you'd never do it in a real fight with these exaggerated arm motions and certainly not launching up onto one leg.  But the exaggerated arm motion teaches the principle that, when changed into 3 quick arm movements, can be a number of combinations.  The one legged thing?  May as well train how well you can move onto one leg and stay rooted.  It worked for me if a sparring partner managed to grap a kick or get a single leg.  I was very hard to take down.

2)  The second part of the problem - and this is huge - is the way the Asian Teachers thought and taught.

I was lucky to have a teacher show me a movement like the one I just described, and then break it down for me a couple different ways Western He encouraged me to practice the way for art, and the practical way to learn to fight.  When 2 man drilling or sparring, he told us don't try it the way because it won't work.  Well, Traditional Eastern Teachers believed that Techer Do, Student Repeat. 

The Eastern Teachers rarely taught practical apllications.  It was the student's job to figure it out.  If the student couldn't figure it out, then the Teacher just assumed the student was a bad one.  Well this shit went on in the name of tradition for so long students who eventually branched off and became teachers ... didn't know WTF the actual applications were.

AND THAT, MY FRIENDS, IS WHY TAI CHI CHUAN AND OTHER TMS'S SEEM INEFFECTIVE.

If taught correctly, drilled correctly with partners, and preasure tested, TMAs work.  I KNOW Northern Long Fist and Tai Chi worked for me.  I fought 3 cage fights in the year 2000 - 2001, and I've had two "street fights".  I used the Chinese arts in every one - and this without relying on my State Champion ship in wrestling.

So to wrap this up - TMAs can work.  There is only one real flaw in TMAs that is the TMA's fault - it's a slower way to learn.  You learn stances and traditional drills and forms.  Then you learn realistic drills and applications.  Then you drill and spar.  In MMA you skip the tradition and culture and go straight to realistic drilling.  Therefore, if your only goal is to learrn to fight, then Kung-Fu, Tai Chi, etc is not for you.  If you want a more cultural experience, TMAs can be great for that AND learning to fight.  You just need and instructor who knows how to translate the yoga/dance like motions into practical skills.

I recommend Ramsey Dewey Q&A with The Coach.  He has fought a real Tai Chi Master and said it was amazing.  He uses a few moves from Tai Chi.  He also says for the most part, Kung-Fu is useless but he is always open minded when a new trainee comes in and does something to him in sparring that works.  Ramsey will say, Where'd you learn that?," and some times get an aanswer like, "Ba'Qua," or, "Hsing I."

This is very interesting stuff but the way you break it down its like...

 

if you want to shoot a gun, Tai Chi teaches you how to make gun powder and you have to figure out the rest on your own

 

and MMA teaches you to shoot a gun

 

I think y'all are on to something here...good shit

13 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 64377
DagwoodDogwoggle - 

I really feel like I need to write a book on this topic.
Tai Chi Chuan (Grand Ultimate Fist) is the system that evolved into Schuai Chiao and San Da.  It's almost entirely throws and grappling.  It is a very effective fighting system if taught and practiced martially.

The problem with Eastern Martial Arts is two fold.

1) They were created in a time when tyranny made it illegal to learn to fist fight and use weapons just as today tyrannies will not allow citizens to learn to ues or carry firearms.  Therefore, fighting and grappling movements were exaggerated, hands were opened, and ideas that would never work together in a real fight were combined in forms. 

Example - the Long Fist Posture - up on one leg, arm extended.  I happen to know the arm motion is a very exaggerated combination that could be clear, jab, cross or jab, cross, liver shot or etc.  But it you'd never do it in a real fight with these exaggerated arm motions and certainly not launching up onto one leg.  But the exaggerated arm motion teaches the principle that, when changed into 3 quick arm movements, can be a number of combinations.  The one legged thing?  May as well train how well you can move onto one leg and stay rooted.  It worked for me if a sparring partner managed to grap a kick or get a single leg.  I was very hard to take down.

2)  The second part of the problem - and this is huge - is the way the Asian Teachers thought and taught.

I was lucky to have a teacher show me a movement like the one I just described, and then break it down for me a couple different ways Western He encouraged me to practice the way for art, and the practical way to learn to fight.  When 2 man drilling or sparring, he told us don't try it the way because it won't work.  Well, Traditional Eastern Teachers believed that Techer Do, Student Repeat. 

The Eastern Teachers rarely taught practical apllications.  It was the student's job to figure it out.  If the student couldn't figure it out, then the Teacher just assumed the student was a bad one.  Well this shit went on in the name of tradition for so long students who eventually branched off and became teachers ... didn't know WTF the actual applications were.

AND THAT, MY FRIENDS, IS WHY TAI CHI CHUAN AND OTHER TMS'S SEEM INEFFECTIVE.

If taught correctly, drilled correctly with partners, and preasure tested, TMAs work.  I KNOW Northern Long Fist and Tai Chi worked for me.  I fought 3 cage fights in the year 2000 - 2001, and I've had two "street fights".  I used the Chinese arts in every one - and this without relying on my State Champion ship in wrestling.

So to wrap this up - TMAs can work.  There is only one real flaw in TMAs that is the TMA's fault - it's a slower way to learn.  You learn stances and traditional drills and forms.  Then you learn realistic drills and applications.  Then you drill and spar.  In MMA you skip the tradition and culture and go straight to realistic drilling.  Therefore, if your only goal is to learrn to fight, then Kung-Fu, Tai Chi, etc is not for you.  If you want a more cultural experience, TMAs can be great for that AND learning to fight.  You just need and instructor who knows how to translate the yoga/dance like motions into practical skills.

I recommend Ramsey Dewey Q&A with The Coach.  He has fought a real Tai Chi Master and said it was amazing.  He uses a few moves from Tai Chi.  He also says for the most part, Kung-Fu is useless but he is always open minded when a new trainee comes in and does something to him in sparring that works.  Ramsey will say, Where'd you learn that?," and some times get an aanswer like, "Ba'Qua," or, "Hsing I."


GreaT posT Thank you!

13 days ago
10/11/18
Posts: 5195
Kirik -
DagwoodDogwoggle - 

I really feel like I need to write a book on this topic.
Tai Chi Chuan (Grand Ultimate Fist) is the system that evolved into Schuai Chiao and San Da.  It's almost entirely throws and grappling.  It is a very effective fighting system if taught and practiced martially.

The problem with Eastern Martial Arts is two fold.

1) They were created in a time when tyranny made it illegal to learn to fist fight and use weapons just as today tyrannies will not allow citizens to learn to ues or carry firearms.  Therefore, fighting and grappling movements were exaggerated, hands were opened, and ideas that would never work together in a real fight were combined in forms. 

Example - the Long Fist Posture - up on one leg, arm extended.  I happen to know the arm motion is a very exaggerated combination that could be clear, jab, cross or jab, cross, liver shot or etc.  But it you'd never do it in a real fight with these exaggerated arm motions and certainly not launching up onto one leg.  But the exaggerated arm motion teaches the principle that, when changed into 3 quick arm movements, can be a number of combinations.  The one legged thing?  May as well train how well you can move onto one leg and stay rooted.  It worked for me if a sparring partner managed to grap a kick or get a single leg.  I was very hard to take down.

2)  The second part of the problem - and this is huge - is the way the Asian Teachers thought and taught.

I was lucky to have a teacher show me a movement like the one I just described, and then break it down for me a couple different ways Western He encouraged me to practice the way for art, and the practical way to learn to fight.  When 2 man drilling or sparring, he told us don't try it the way because it won't work.  Well, Traditional Eastern Teachers believed that Techer Do, Student Repeat. 

The Eastern Teachers rarely taught practical apllications.  It was the student's job to figure it out.  If the student couldn't figure it out, then the Teacher just assumed the student was a bad one.  Well this shit went on in the name of tradition for so long students who eventually branched off and became teachers ... didn't know WTF the actual applications were.

AND THAT, MY FRIENDS, IS WHY TAI CHI CHUAN AND OTHER TMS'S SEEM INEFFECTIVE.

If taught correctly, drilled correctly with partners, and preasure tested, TMAs work.  I KNOW Northern Long Fist and Tai Chi worked for me.  I fought 3 cage fights in the year 2000 - 2001, and I've had two "street fights".  I used the Chinese arts in every one - and this without relying on my State Champion ship in wrestling.

So to wrap this up - TMAs can work.  There is only one real flaw in TMAs that is the TMA's fault - it's a slower way to learn.  You learn stances and traditional drills and forms.  Then you learn realistic drills and applications.  Then you drill and spar.  In MMA you skip the tradition and culture and go straight to realistic drilling.  Therefore, if your only goal is to learrn to fight, then Kung-Fu, Tai Chi, etc is not for you.  If you want a more cultural experience, TMAs can be great for that AND learning to fight.  You just need and instructor who knows how to translate the yoga/dance like motions into practical skills.

I recommend Ramsey Dewey Q&A with The Coach.  He has fought a real Tai Chi Master and said it was amazing.  He uses a few moves from Tai Chi.  He also says for the most part, Kung-Fu is useless but he is always open minded when a new trainee comes in and does something to him in sparring that works.  Ramsey will say, Where'd you learn that?," and some times get an aanswer like, "Ba'Qua," or, "Hsing I."


GreaT posT Thank you!

I see what you did there.

 

TTT 

 

 

12 days ago
10/1/03
Posts: 68852

You know interestingly enough I was considering joining one of the morning tai chi groups in the park next to my hotel in shanghai before this whole covid disaster.   Mostly for the chics.  Yeah they’re all grandmas, but I’ve always been attractive to really old Asian ladies.   How does that work?  Well, that generation all cook and clean, and besides cobweb Nani, they normally have a daughter or granddaughter that they want tamed and seem to think the younger dude that does tai chi with them is just the fella.

And to keep this thread relevant, I’m old enough to have been dramatically impacted by black belt theater and actually studied wing Chun for a few years as a youngster and although it cost me humiliation and a few black eyes against my rivals that boxed here in Hawaii, the “worthless” horse stances we learned back then seem to work extremely well against Dela riva and berimbolo guards among others if you strengthen the tool and apply the theory.  No shit