UnderGround Forums UFC 4..Where was Ken Shamrock?!?

Edited: 12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48174

watched the Berry fight again Ken took about the biggest most obvious dives ive ever seen.... youtube.com/watch?v=IUB9-AclMKcyoutube.com/watch?v=IUB9-AclMKc,,,,thats a disgrace to the sport and he has so many works I cant trust any fight he is in.He also threw no punches this fight

Edited: 12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48175

Edited: 12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48176

almost as obvious as the Berry fight,.Ken and Kimbo even do the ole pro wrestling clinch Ken tells him what to do and Ken takes another dive

Edited: 12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48177

im not going to look for it but he gave up his KOP title in a work and did a work with Matt Hume thats 5 at least

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 63724

Ken never won a tournament in the UFC.  For Royce to do it multiple times is amazing

12 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20217
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.

ken has also had many MMA works The Franklin fight The Berry fight.Kimbo Fight all works IMO




That's your opinion.


I'm not so sure.

the kimbo fight he had the rear naked to prove a point an dlet it go He worked for homer Berry in England and the Franklin fight was obvious



You don't think Ken would have profited more by winning those fights?

My take on the Franklin fight is that Ken was going to attempt the leg scissor he used to be good at, then he saw the punch coming, hesitated, and got jammed up on the mat.
Weird stuff like that happens.

And Ken was a big money draw for the UFC at the time.
So really no reason for that anyone in the organization would benefit from him losing. Mire wins would have equaled more big PPVs.


As far as Kimbo...
I don't think people realize the extent of Ken's injuries.
Its not just his 2 bad knees.
He also has like 4 fuzed disks in his back. He broke his neck in high school, reinjured it in the WWF, and again in Pride.
He also has shoulder problems.. ans who knows what else.
I think Ken had a hard time finishing the choke because he was having muscle failure, and couldn't get the right arch to leverage it.
His injuries are that debilitating.
He should have changed his grip, but he was probably frustrated and a little desperate that it wasn't working.


And if they were works... its kind of crazy that Ken, with all his wear and tear, and his bad neck -- would just let powerful fighters tee off on his face in order to put them over.

Seems to me Ken could have made more money actually winning fights at that time in his career.

So it kind of doesn't make a lot of sense.



Regardless... neither one of us knows for sure.
12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 63730

I Believe Ken could have KOed Coleman in training but I would pick Coleman in MMA every time.  Ken has a heel hooks chance but I'd bet the farm on Coleman.

 

I also don't think Ken could beat Royce, Royce had his number and is still living in his head.  Ken had a great career but there are some guys you cannot beat,  go ask DC

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48178
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.

ken has also had many MMA works The Franklin fight The Berry fight.Kimbo Fight all works IMO




That's your opinion.


I'm not so sure.

the kimbo fight he had the rear naked to prove a point an dlet it go He worked for homer Berry in England and the Franklin fight was obvious



You don't think Ken would have profited more by winning those fights?

My take on the Franklin fight is that Ken was going to attempt the leg scissor he used to be good at, then he saw the punch coming, hesitated, and got jammed up on the mat.
Weird stuff like that happens.

And Ken was a big money draw for the UFC at the time.
So really no reason for that anyone in the organization would benefit from him losing. Mire wins would have equaled more big PPVs.


As far as Kimbo...
I don't think people realize the extent of Ken's injuries.
Its not just his 2 bad knees.
He also has like 4 fuzed disks in his back. He broke his neck in high school, reinjured it in the WWF, and again in Pride.
He also has shoulder problems.. ans who knows what else.
I think Ken had a hard time finishing the choke because he was having muscle failure, and couldn't get the right arch to leverage it.
His injuries are that debilitating.
He should have changed his grip, but he was probably frustrated and a little desperate that it wasn't working.


And if they were works... its kind of crazy that Ken, with all his wear and tear, and his bad neck -- would just let powerful fighters tee off on his face in order to put them over.

Seems to me Ken could have made more money actually winning fights at that time in his career.

So it kind of doesn't make a lot of sense.



Regardless... neither one of us knows for sure.

no he threw the fight to Berry because Berry was from England and to make Kimbo seem legid..Did u even watch Both are super obvious Just as obvious when Ken lost the KOP title by work

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48179
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.

ken has also had many MMA works The Franklin fight The Berry fight.Kimbo Fight all works IMO




That's your opinion.


I'm not so sure.

the kimbo fight he had the rear naked to prove a point an dlet it go He worked for homer Berry in England and the Franklin fight was obvious



You don't think Ken would have profited more by winning those fights?

My take on the Franklin fight is that Ken was going to attempt the leg scissor he used to be good at, then he saw the punch coming, hesitated, and got jammed up on the mat.
Weird stuff like that happens.

And Ken was a big money draw for the UFC at the time.
So really no reason for that anyone in the organization would benefit from him losing. Mire wins would have equaled more big PPVs.


As far as Kimbo...
I don't think people realize the extent of Ken's injuries.
Its not just his 2 bad knees.
He also has like 4 fuzed disks in his back. He broke his neck in high school, reinjured it in the WWF, and again in Pride.
He also has shoulder problems.. ans who knows what else.
I think Ken had a hard time finishing the choke because he was having muscle failure, and couldn't get the right arch to leverage it.
His injuries are that debilitating.
He should have changed his grip, but he was probably frustrated and a little desperate that it wasn't working.


And if they were works... its kind of crazy that Ken, with all his wear and tear, and his bad neck -- would just let powerful fighters tee off on his face in order to put them over.

Seems to me Ken could have made more money actually winning fights at that time in his career.

So it kind of doesn't make a lot of sense.



Regardless... neither one of us knows for sure.

did u watch the Berry fight ? u think thats real ? if so i question anything u say regarding MMA.Kens been in at least 5 works

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48180

nobody teed off on his face.Berrys punch hit the gloves and Kimbo didnt land anything flush Neither did Franklin or when he lost the KOP title

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 63737
Winston Wolf -
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.

ken has also had many MMA works The Franklin fight The Berry fight.Kimbo Fight all works IMO




That's your opinion.


I'm not so sure.

the kimbo fight he had the rear naked to prove a point an dlet it go He worked for homer Berry in England and the Franklin fight was obvious



You don't think Ken would have profited more by winning those fights?

My take on the Franklin fight is that Ken was going to attempt the leg scissor he used to be good at, then he saw the punch coming, hesitated, and got jammed up on the mat.
Weird stuff like that happens.

And Ken was a big money draw for the UFC at the time.
So really no reason for that anyone in the organization would benefit from him losing. Mire wins would have equaled more big PPVs.


As far as Kimbo...
I don't think people realize the extent of Ken's injuries.
Its not just his 2 bad knees.
He also has like 4 fuzed disks in his back. He broke his neck in high school, reinjured it in the WWF, and again in Pride.
He also has shoulder problems.. ans who knows what else.
I think Ken had a hard time finishing the choke because he was having muscle failure, and couldn't get the right arch to leverage it.
His injuries are that debilitating.
He should have changed his grip, but he was probably frustrated and a little desperate that it wasn't working.


And if they were works... its kind of crazy that Ken, with all his wear and tear, and his bad neck -- would just let powerful fighters tee off on his face in order to put them over.

Seems to me Ken could have made more money actually winning fights at that time in his career.

So it kind of doesn't make a lot of sense.



Regardless... neither one of us knows for sure.

did u watch the Berry fight ? u think thats real ? if so i question anything u say regarding MMA.Kens been in at least 5 works

How much to throw a fight for Tyson?

12 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20218
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.

whast your connection with Ken u are on every thread defending him and u say its been established Ken KOed Coleman ..By Who u provide no source




The Coleman thing was a long time rumor going around among people who trained, and had been mentioned on this site as well.

There have been 2 fighters who were there and confirmed the incident.

One was Ashe Bowman, on this site.

I cannot recall who the other was.

Ashe Who? and I forget i would not call established proof Even so it was practice means nothing




To clarify:

The rumors about Ken KOing Coleman were pretty common for years.
People on the UG would state it as fact, but I personally never did because it hadn't been confirmed.

Ashe Bowman was on a thread where it was being discussed, and he confirmed that he was there and saw it happen.

There was another thread and another fighter confirming the same thing.
I'm pretty sure I know who it was, but because I'm not 100% on it, I'm not going to use the name.

And no its not established proof.
But I also have no reason do doubt a fighter who says he was there -- especially after hearing about it for years prior.


And I agree training means nothing.. but the incident at least shows that those 2 monsters were probably evenly matched physically.
It's also just a cool training story.



My post was responding to a guy who said Ken couldn't KO Dan Severn.
My point was, given the evidence, I think it's more likely Ken would KO Severn, than the other way around.
12 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20219
Winston Wolf - 

im not going to look for it but he gave up his KOP title in a work and did a work with Matt Hume thats 5 at least




Yes the Hume fight, 2 with Suzuki, and 1 with Funaki were works.

That's been fairly well established.

The first Suzuki fight has been questioned. Rumor has it Ken was told not to hurt him, so he was holding back.



12 days ago
3/12/07
Posts: 14007

KOP meant more than UFC back then, at least in my book.

UFC was still unestablished stylistically, so was more of a determining factor than skill in some cases. That's what made UFC special. Does your MA work in combat sports?

But fighting in an established rule set forces more skill, which I weigh higher than effectiveness of >

12 days ago
9/27/15
Posts: 12293
Tim Duncan - 

Ken never won a tournament in the UFC.  For Royce to do it multiple times is amazing


Ken never even fought in the finals of a ufc tournament! Not once
12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48181
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 

im not going to look for it but he gave up his KOP title in a work and did a work with Matt Hume thats 5 at least




Yes the Hume fight, 2 with Suzuki, and 1 with Funaki were works.

That's been fairly well established.

The first Suzuki fight has been questioned. Rumor has it Ken was told not to hurt him, so he was holding back.



Hume,2 with Suzuki,Berry,Kimbo ,Berry....Thats 6...do u think the Berry fight was real Watch it i provided the video

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48182
Tim Duncan -
Winston Wolf -
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.

ken has also had many MMA works The Franklin fight The Berry fight.Kimbo Fight all works IMO




That's your opinion.


I'm not so sure.

the kimbo fight he had the rear naked to prove a point an dlet it go He worked for homer Berry in England and the Franklin fight was obvious



You don't think Ken would have profited more by winning those fights?

My take on the Franklin fight is that Ken was going to attempt the leg scissor he used to be good at, then he saw the punch coming, hesitated, and got jammed up on the mat.
Weird stuff like that happens.

And Ken was a big money draw for the UFC at the time.
So really no reason for that anyone in the organization would benefit from him losing. Mire wins would have equaled more big PPVs.


As far as Kimbo...
I don't think people realize the extent of Ken's injuries.
Its not just his 2 bad knees.
He also has like 4 fuzed disks in his back. He broke his neck in high school, reinjured it in the WWF, and again in Pride.
He also has shoulder problems.. ans who knows what else.
I think Ken had a hard time finishing the choke because he was having muscle failure, and couldn't get the right arch to leverage it.
His injuries are that debilitating.
He should have changed his grip, but he was probably frustrated and a little desperate that it wasn't working.


And if they were works... its kind of crazy that Ken, with all his wear and tear, and his bad neck -- would just let powerful fighters tee off on his face in order to put them over.

Seems to me Ken could have made more money actually winning fights at that time in his career.

So it kind of doesn't make a lot of sense.



Regardless... neither one of us knows for sure.

did u watch the Berry fight ? u think thats real ? if so i question anything u say regarding MMA.Kens been in at least 5 works

How much to throw a fight for Tyson?

im sure theres always a number

Edited: 12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48183
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
theshooter - "That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.

Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.

whast your connection with Ken u are on every thread defending him and u say its been established Ken KOed Coleman ..By Who u provide no source




The Coleman thing was a long time rumor going around among people who trained, and had been mentioned on this site as well.

There have been 2 fighters who were there and confirmed the incident.

One was Ashe Bowman, on this site.

I cannot recall who the other was.

Ashe Who? and I forget i would not call established proof Even so it was practice means nothing




To clarify:

The rumors about Ken KOing Coleman were pretty common for years.
People on the UG would state it as fact, but I personally never did because it hadn't been confirmed.

Ashe Bowman was on a thread where it was being discussed, and he confirmed that he was there and saw it happen.

There was another thread and another fighter confirming the same thing.
I'm pretty sure I know who it was, but because I'm not 100% on it, I'm not going to use the name.

And no its not established proof.
But I also have no reason do doubt a fighter who says he was there -- especially after hearing about it for years prior.


And I agree training means nothing.. but the incident at least shows that those 2 monsters were probably evenly matched physically.
It's also just a cool training story.



My post was responding to a guy who said Ken couldn't KO Dan Severn.
My point was, given the evidence, I think it's more likely Ken would KO Severn, than the other way around.

who was the pro fighter ? asche bowman was a screen name not a fighter There is not record of him fighting.I been here since prior to 2000 nobody posted like that wads fact.Ur source is a screen name here

12 days ago
9/27/15
Posts: 12294
onepunchJD - 
Winston Wolf - 

im not going to look for it but he gave up his KOP title in a work and did a work with Matt Hume thats 5 at least




Yes the Hume fight, 2 with Suzuki, and 1 with Funaki were works.

That's been fairly well established.

The first Suzuki fight has been questioned. Rumor has it Ken was told not to hurt him, so he was holding back.




Do you not see the error in your reasoning here? Shamrock gave up his Kop title(which is in your opinion just as prestigious as a ufc title) in a work! Then you mention several other KNOWN works..you can only guess as to which other fights were worked and which weren't..you have no idea which others were worked

It is strange though how dominant Shamrock was in Pancrase though yet in Mma he never even fought in the finals of a single ufc tournament! If both leagues were the same sport then why didn't Ken ever hold the ufc belt?

You mention Ken running through Severn the first time but seem to totally forget the second fight ..it was mostly a square dance but when Severn did get on top of Shamrock he beat him bLoody..Shamrock had absolutely nothing for Severn in the rematch and don't blame it on the "only open handed punches" rule..besides, that's what Ken was supposedly so good at though in Pancrase right?

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48184

again do u think the berry fight was real ? did u even watch it

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48185

google ashe bowman u get nothing

12 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20220
ons ear - 
onepunchJD - 
Winston Wolf - 

im not going to look for it but he gave up his KOP title in a work and did a work with Matt Hume thats 5 at least




Yes the Hume fight, 2 with Suzuki, and 1 with Funaki were works.

That's been fairly well established.

The first Suzuki fight has been questioned. Rumor has it Ken was told not to hurt him, so he was holding back.




Do you not see the error in your reasoning here? Shamrock gave up his Kop title(which is in your opinion just as prestigious as a ufc title) in a work! Then you mention several other KNOWN works..you can only guess as to which other fights were worked and which weren't..you have no idea which others were worked

It is strange though how dominant Shamrock was in Pancrase though yet in Mma he never even fought in the finals of a single ufc tournament! If both leagues were the same sport then why didn't Ken ever hold the ufc belt?

You mention Ken running through Severn the first time but seem to totally forget the second fight ..it was mostly a square dance but when Severn did get on top of Shamrock he beat him bLoody..Shamrock had absolutely nothing for Severn in the rematch and don't blame it on the "only open handed punches" rule..besides, that's what Ken was supposedly so good at though in Pancrase right?




LOL



You're exaggerating and seem hysterical.
11 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20221
Winston Wolf - 

google ashe bowman u get nothing




https://m.sherdog.com/fighter/Ashe-Bowman-9406
11 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20222
WikiTheWalrus - 

KOP meant more than UFC back then, at least in my book.

UFC was still unestablished stylistically, so was more of a determining factor than skill in some cases. That's what made UFC special. Does your MA work in combat sports?

But fighting in an established rule set forces more skill, which I weigh higher than effectiveness of >




I preferred NHB... but Pancrase was awesome too.


Regardless, it was absolutely a big deal at the time -- no matter what haters on the UG say LOL.
11 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20223
Tim Duncan - 

I Believe Ken could have KOed Coleman in training but I would pick Coleman in MMA every time.  Ken has a heel hooks chance but I'd bet the farm on Coleman.

 

I also don't think Ken could beat Royce, Royce had his number and is still living in his head.  Ken had a great career but there are some guys you cannot beat,  go ask DC



I'd pick Ken to beat Coleman had they fought in the late 90s.
I can't see Coleman finishing Ken quickly enough. Ken had better cardio and was just as strong if not stronger.
I think Ken weathers some G&P and gets a submission after Coleman got tired.

Ken was a much better fighter than Pete Williams.


Either way... it's one of the fights I wish we had gotten to see.




As far as Royce.. I guess it's a good thing for him there weren't judges in the second fight :).
The fight was lackluster, but Ken roughed Royce up from high in the guard in the OT period.
Royce had nothing for Ken at the end of that fight.