Winston Wolf -
Winston Wolf -
ons ear -
"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"
Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.
Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..
And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..
Pancrase was full of works too
Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.
It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.
Ken's KOP fights were real.
Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.
""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""
Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.
So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??
Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.
So... wrong again.
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.
ken has also had many MMA works The Franklin fight The Berry fight.Kimbo Fight all works IMO
That's your opinion.
I'm not so sure.
the kimbo fight he had the rear naked to prove a point an dlet it go He worked for homer Berry in England and the Franklin fight was obvious
You don't think Ken would have profited more by winning those fights?
My take on the Franklin fight is that Ken was going to attempt the leg scissor he used to be good at, then he saw the punch coming, hesitated, and got jammed up on the mat.
Weird stuff like that happens.
And Ken was a big money draw for the UFC at the time.
So really no reason for that anyone in the organization would benefit from him losing. Mire wins would have equaled more big PPVs.
As far as Kimbo...
I don't think people realize the extent of Ken's injuries.
Its not just his 2 bad knees.
He also has like 4 fuzed disks in his back. He broke his neck in high school, reinjured it in the WWF, and again in Pride.
He also has shoulder problems.. ans who knows what else.
I think Ken had a hard time finishing the choke because he was having muscle failure, and couldn't get the right arch to leverage it.
His injuries are that debilitating.
He should have changed his grip, but he was probably frustrated and a little desperate that it wasn't working.
And if they were works... its kind of crazy that Ken, with all his wear and tear, and his bad neck -- would just let powerful fighters tee off on his face in order to put them over.
Seems to me Ken could have made more money actually winning fights at that time in his career.
So it kind of doesn't make a lot of sense.
Regardless... neither one of us knows for sure.