UnderGround Forums UFC 4..Where was Ken Shamrock?!?

16 days ago
9/27/15
Posts: 12239
UFC 3, we saw Royce Gracue and Ken Shamrock return and despite winning their fights, they were injured and couldn't continue..Alternate Steve Jennum, skilled in. His own fit, ended up winning UFC 3

For UFC 4, you'd expect Royce, Jennum and Ken Shamrock to all return in the main draw right?! Well, Royce and Jennum were in but Ken was missing for some reason..we did see the debut of beast wrestler Dan Severn though

Where was Ken Shamrock at?! Was he originally slated to be in UFC 4 but got injured? Royce ended up winning UFC 4 and Ken Shamrock would go from gettin injured at UFC 3 to a damn super fight vs Royce Gracie at UFC 5! Umm what the?! How or why did that happen? Did they originally have a different opponent for Royce at UFC 5?!

Had Shamrock entered UFC 4, how do you see him doing?
16 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20146


Ken was competing in the first King Of Pancrase tournament in Japan.

The tournament took place over 2 days.

Ken beat Alex Cook, Masa Funaki, Mo Smith, and Manabu Yamada -- to become the first ever KING OF PANCRASE.
16 days ago
10/14/12
Posts: 1138
Joe Son beats Ken Shamrock
16 days ago
9/27/15
Posts: 12246
onepunchJD - 

Ken was competing in the first King Of Pancrase tournament in Japan.

The tournament took place over 2 days.

Ken beat Alex Cook, Masa Funaki, Mo Smith, and Manabu Yamada -- to become the first ever KING OF PANCRASE.

That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume

I think if Shamrock had fought Severn at UFC 4, I don't see Ken submitting Dan from the bottom nor do I see him knocking Dan out..Severn was very green at the time but still a beast wrestler
16 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20147
SuperFightFan - Joe Son beats Ken Shamrock


LOL
16 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20148
ons ear - 
onepunchJD - 

Ken was competing in the first King Of Pancrase tournament in Japan.

The tournament took place over 2 days.

Ken beat Alex Cook, Masa Funaki, Mo Smith, and Manabu Yamada -- to become the first ever KING OF PANCRASE.

That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume

I think if Shamrock had fought Severn at UFC 4, I don't see Ken submitting Dan from the bottom nor do I see him knocking Dan out..Severn was very green at the time but still a beast wrestler


Are you trolling?


Ken started his MMA career in Pancrase.
Why wouldn't he compete in that historic event?

IMO Pancrase had the more skilled overall roster than the UFC at the time.
That said, IMO the top 2-3 UFC fighters were better than the best Pancrase fighters -- with the obvious exception of Ken -- who was indisputably the best Pancrase fighter, and arguably the second best UFC fighter until the Royce/Ken Superfight -- when he became the best UFC fighter as well.


Also...

Are you not aware that Ken easily submitted Dan Severn at UFC 6?
Ken shamrock and Mark Coleman are the only 2 fighters of that era who were able to run-through "The Beast", and make it look easy.

In fact -- Dan Severn has been quoted as saying Ken Shamrock was the strongest man he ever fought, and the only fighter he couldn't move.

On top of that:
Don Frye has said that the reason he wanted to fight Ken -- was because he didn't think the man lived who could manhandle Dan Severn -- and he wanted to test himself against that man.






So are you trolling?
Or do you really just not know the history?


""""nor do I see him knocking Dan out""""


FYI:
It's been well established that Ken KOd Mark Coleman in training.

Granted, it is training -- so take that for what it's worth.

But as the confirmed story goes:

Coleman and Ken were sparring.
Coleman went too hard, and dropped Ken with a punch.
Ken got up, and knocked Coleman out, to prove a point.


Ken Shamrock was undefeated in 3 ToughMan competitions.
He hit hard, and could take a punch.

Ken in the 90s wasn't known for his striking much -- (although he hurt and dropped guys with open-hand strikes and knees from the clinch in Pancrase) (as well as physically getting the better of Bas Rutten in striking exchanges).

But between Ken and Severn... lol... yeah, Ken could KO Severn long before Dan would KO Ken.




I recommend you avoid wikipedia, and just watch the events in order.
16 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14014
Ken's loyalty was with Pancrase at that time. He signed with them first. Winning the KOP was no joke, that was huge.
Edited: 16 days ago
4/18/20
Posts: 142
ons ear -
onepunchJD - 

Ken was competing in the first King Of Pancrase tournament in Japan.

The tournament took place over 2 days.

Ken beat Alex Cook, Masa Funaki, Mo Smith, and Manabu Yamada -- to become the first ever KING OF PANCRASE.

That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume

I think if Shamrock had fought Severn at UFC 4, I don't see Ken submitting Dan from the bottom nor do I see him knocking Dan out..Severn was very green at the time but still a beast wrestler

Shamrock submitted Severn a couple ufcs later aftrr he had more time to learn submissions, it didn’t even make it to the ground

Shamrock almost got the same choke each time Severn shot in. Who knows what subs he would get if it had gone to the ground. 

How would Severn be better at defending submissions at ufc 4 with less training compared to ufc 6 when he was subbed by Ken anyways, derp derp 

Edited: 16 days ago
4/18/20
Posts: 143

 

16 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20149
William C - Ken's loyalty was with Pancrase at that time. He signed with them first. Winning the KOP was no joke, that was huge.


It was a big deal.
16 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8874

"Joe Son beats Ken Shamrock"


LOL!

15 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8877

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.

15 days ago
9/27/15
Posts: 12273
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too
15 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20165
ons ear - 
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.
Edited: 15 days ago
4/18/20
Posts: 147

Shamrock could of easily won the ufc3 tournament it was supposed to be him vs Royce in the finals but Royce threw in the towel to Harold Howard, Ken was not about to just fight that goofball Harold Howard, Steve Jenum vs Harold Howard was meant to be the main event for that card 

From Kens point of view the ufc was a new event that was partly owned and operated by Royce Gracies uncle Rorion, and the status was not there yet. They go from fighting in Denver 2x to bum fuck Oklahoma bcs the political pressure was already ramping up, it was a different time. Winning and defending the super fight title and forcing Royce and Rorion out of the ufc was a big enough win 

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 8913

"Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too"


Pancrase was (is) MMA. Pancrase mixed different of martial arts together, and it included grappling, with submission holds, and strikes.


Yes, at the time Ken won the King of Pancrase, the only allowed open palm strikes to the head, but clenched fist strikes to the body were allowed. They did have rope escapes, but they were limited, I think it was to 5 rope escapes, and then a DQ, and I think a fighter lost points for rope escapes.


The talent level in Pancrase was pretty high at the time, and included Ken and Frank Shamrock, Masakatsu Funaki, Minoru Suzuki, Bas Rutten, Maurice Smith, Guy Mezger, Yoshiki Takahashi, to name just a few.


Pancrase was most definitely MMA.


As for works in Pancrase, that has been exaggerated. There were very few works in Pancrase, maybe 2 or 3.


There were some fights where the fighters had a gentleman's agreement to not throw strikes while on the ground, but this is not a work, as in they were still competing for real, they just agreed to not strike each other while on the ground.

Edited: 12 days ago
4/18/20
Posts: 151

Shamrock had the super fight title but didn’t happen to win any tournaments, big deal, he beat the best guys for the time and Bas Rutten is the guy who had almost all of his fights in pancrase. When people talk about Bas, pancrase becomes more legitimate all of a sudden. In the 2nd Severn fight the rules were no punching on the ground and Severn did it anyway

ufc 3 finals would have been Shamrock vs Harold Howard if he didn’t get the knee injury

 

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48168
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
onepunchJD - 

Ken was competing in the first King Of Pancrase tournament in Japan.

The tournament took place over 2 days.

Ken beat Alex Cook, Masa Funaki, Mo Smith, and Manabu Yamada -- to become the first ever KING OF PANCRASE.

That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume

I think if Shamrock had fought Severn at UFC 4, I don't see Ken submitting Dan from the bottom nor do I see him knocking Dan out..Severn was very green at the time but still a beast wrestler


Are you trolling?


Ken started his MMA career in Pancrase.
Why wouldn't he compete in that historic event?

IMO Pancrase had the more skilled overall roster than the UFC at the time.
That said, IMO the top 2-3 UFC fighters were better than the best Pancrase fighters -- with the obvious exception of Ken -- who was indisputably the best Pancrase fighter, and arguably the second best UFC fighter until the Royce/Ken Superfight -- when he became the best UFC fighter as well.


Also...

Are you not aware that Ken easily submitted Dan Severn at UFC 6?
Ken shamrock and Mark Coleman are the only 2 fighters of that era who were able to run-through "The Beast", and make it look easy.

In fact -- Dan Severn has been quoted as saying Ken Shamrock was the strongest man he ever fought, and the only fighter he couldn't move.

On top of that:
Don Frye has said that the reason he wanted to fight Ken -- was because he didn't think the man lived who could manhandle Dan Severn -- and he wanted to test himself against that man.






So are you trolling?
Or do you really just not know the history?


""""nor do I see him knocking Dan out""""


FYI:
It's been well established that Ken KOd Mark Coleman in training.

Granted, it is training -- so take that for what it's worth.

But as the confirmed story goes:

Coleman and Ken were sparring.
Coleman went too hard, and dropped Ken with a punch.
Ken got up, and knocked Coleman out, to prove a point.


Ken Shamrock was undefeated in 3 ToughMan competitions.
He hit hard, and could take a punch.

Ken in the 90s wasn't known for his striking much -- (although he hurt and dropped guys with open-hand strikes and knees from the clinch in Pancrase) (as well as physically getting the better of Bas Rutten in striking exchanges).

But between Ken and Severn... lol... yeah, Ken could KO Severn long before Dan would KO Ken.




I recommend you avoid wikipedia, and just watch the events in order.

rizzo ran through the beast as well

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48169
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.

whast your connection with Ken u are on every thread defending him and u say its been established Ken KOed Coleman ..By Who u provide no source

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48170
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.

ken has also had many MMA works The Franklin fight The Berry fight.Kimbo Fight all works IMO

12 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20214
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
onepunchJD - 

Ken was competing in the first King Of Pancrase tournament in Japan.

The tournament took place over 2 days.

Ken beat Alex Cook, Masa Funaki, Mo Smith, and Manabu Yamada -- to become the first ever KING OF PANCRASE.

That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume

I think if Shamrock had fought Severn at UFC 4, I don't see Ken submitting Dan from the bottom nor do I see him knocking Dan out..Severn was very green at the time but still a beast wrestler


Are you trolling?


Ken started his MMA career in Pancrase.
Why wouldn't he compete in that historic event?

IMO Pancrase had the more skilled overall roster than the UFC at the time.
That said, IMO the top 2-3 UFC fighters were better than the best Pancrase fighters -- with the obvious exception of Ken -- who was indisputably the best Pancrase fighter, and arguably the second best UFC fighter until the Royce/Ken Superfight -- when he became the best UFC fighter as well.


Also...

Are you not aware that Ken easily submitted Dan Severn at UFC 6?
Ken shamrock and Mark Coleman are the only 2 fighters of that era who were able to run-through "The Beast", and make it look easy.

In fact -- Dan Severn has been quoted as saying Ken Shamrock was the strongest man he ever fought, and the only fighter he couldn't move.

On top of that:
Don Frye has said that the reason he wanted to fight Ken -- was because he didn't think the man lived who could manhandle Dan Severn -- and he wanted to test himself against that man.






So are you trolling?
Or do you really just not know the history?


""""nor do I see him knocking Dan out""""


FYI:
It's been well established that Ken KOd Mark Coleman in training.

Granted, it is training -- so take that for what it's worth.

But as the confirmed story goes:

Coleman and Ken were sparring.
Coleman went too hard, and dropped Ken with a punch.
Ken got up, and knocked Coleman out, to prove a point.


Ken Shamrock was undefeated in 3 ToughMan competitions.
He hit hard, and could take a punch.

Ken in the 90s wasn't known for his striking much -- (although he hurt and dropped guys with open-hand strikes and knees from the clinch in Pancrase) (as well as physically getting the better of Bas Rutten in striking exchanges).

But between Ken and Severn... lol... yeah, Ken could KO Severn long before Dan would KO Ken.




I recommend you avoid wikipedia, and just watch the events in order.

rizzo ran through the beast as well




" of that era "
12 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20215
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.

whast your connection with Ken u are on every thread defending him and u say its been established Ken KOed Coleman ..By Who u provide no source




The Coleman thing was a long time rumor going around among people who trained, and had been mentioned on this site as well.

There have been 2 fighters who were there and confirmed the incident.

One was Ashe Bowman, on this site.

I cannot recall who the other was.
12 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20216
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.

ken has also had many MMA works The Franklin fight The Berry fight.Kimbo Fight all works IMO




That's your opinion.


I'm not so sure.
12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48172
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.

ken has also had many MMA works The Franklin fight The Berry fight.Kimbo Fight all works IMO




That's your opinion.


I'm not so sure.

the kimbo fight he had the rear naked to prove a point an dlet it go He worked for homer Berry in England and the Franklin fight was obvious

12 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48173
onepunchJD -
Winston Wolf - 
onepunchJD -
ons ear - 
theshooter - 

"That's very unfortunate..he should have been in UFC 4.. He really needed that UFC tournament Victory for his resume"


Winning the first King of Pancrase Tournament, and becoming the first King of Pancrase, is an impressive accomplishment, and should be ranked right up there with winning a UFC title. The talent in Pancrase was really good back then.


Pancrase was not Mma though, it was Pancrase..Shamrock was great in Pancrase but in Mma he wasn't nearly as dominant..

And no, winning Pancrase title is not up there with a UFC title..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..

Pancrase was full of works too



Pancrase was MMA.
It was not NHB.


It wasn't "full of works".
There were a few, and we mostly know which ones.

Ken's KOP fights were real.


Ken was nearly as dominant in the UFC.
Royce in UFC 1 is his only real loss.
The Dance In Detroit was marred by last minute rule changes and legal issues.
Ken had a couple lackluster UFC fights -- but other than Royce, nobody came close to beating him or even had him in any real trouble.


""""..there is a reason why Shamrock won titles in Pancrase yet didn't in the UFC ..""""


Dan Severn was a 2 time UFC tournament winner -- and Ken ran through him.
Oleg was a UFC tournament winner, and we know about Royce.
Ken controlled and pretty much dominated both guys. Had there been judges, Ken won unanimously.

So what exactly is ""the reason"" Ken won titles in Pancrase and not the UFC??

Ken won a tournament in Pancrase and the Superfight "title" in the UFC.

So... wrong again.




BTW:
The KOP tournament had a lot of talent.
Ken had to fight 4 times in 2 days to win.
It is absolutely a historic and prestigious accomplishment.

whast your connection with Ken u are on every thread defending him and u say its been established Ken KOed Coleman ..By Who u provide no source




The Coleman thing was a long time rumor going around among people who trained, and had been mentioned on this site as well.

There have been 2 fighters who were there and confirmed the incident.

One was Ashe Bowman, on this site.

I cannot recall who the other was.

Ashe Who? and I forget i would not call established proof Even so it was practice means nothing