UnderGround Forums UFC loses 100 Million in revenue in 2018

30 days ago
12/9/13
Posts: 25738
bungee up -

At the risk of being that guy that goes " listen to me, listen to what i have to say "

My previous question still seems to be un answered.   Probably because non of us actually know because its not public. 

I tried doing some research and didn't get very far.  It does seem that the PPV model isn't totally world wide but it dose seem that the product is world wide ( 159 contries ).   They're making alot of revenue off that im sure. They arnt just giving it away.   There must be a fuck ton of money tied up in tv deals. 

On top of that the extra money they charge for the places hosting the ufc in public,  again like previously mentioned. 

 

The ufc isn't something that's exclusive to north America like the NFL. Almost nobody gives a fuck about the NFL outside north America. 

in Europe they have deals with channels, In the UK you have btsports, which is seperate from your basic channel package, you just pay an amount per months for the channel(s)

you will get the sports they broadcast, UFC rugby, motogp etc.

Sky sports is another package you can get, which broadcast Formula 1, cycling, etc

30 days ago
8/22/14
Posts: 2619

^Pretty much established that mate.

The question is how much money are they making from broadcasting overseas, ppv or otherwise. 

My guess is far more than their reported earnings suggest. 

29 days ago
12/9/13
Posts: 25739
bungee up -

^Pretty much established that mate.

The question is how much money are they making from broadcasting overseas, ppv or otherwise. 

My guess is far more than their reported earnings suggest. 

i have no idea what they are making from it.

29 days ago
8/20/03
Posts: 143188
youarewhatiswrong - 
Captain Canuck -
Right Hand JO Power - 

i wish i could afford to lose 100 million in revenue and still be fucking killing it


This.

I hate when they say they "lost" revenue.

So they made less of a profit than last year?

So...they still made a profit?

If you buy a house and take out a $2k a month mortgage with the belief that you will earn $3k a month, then find your income decreasing every month, when your income gets down to $2200 a month, you’re still paying your bills but do you feel good about things?


When I buy a house I KNOW what my income is.

I don't gamble on what I will earn.

I base it off what I am earning.

29 days ago
8/20/03
Posts: 143189
RoyNelsonsTVDinner - 

We can only judge the state of MMA based on our own personal perspective.

When I first got into the UFC (around the early 00’s), I wouldn’t miss an event. Friends would come over to watch; I traveled to Vegas (from the UK) just for a fight; I absorbed every bit of MMA-related news; knew every fighter on a card; the UG was thriving with fans/fighters.

Now I barely give a fuck. I started pre-recording events to watch them (rather than watching live); then I started fast-forwarding through them for results. Now I just check the UG for results and just delete the recording.

I’m not bitching (I’m way past caring about the popularity of the UFC), it just highlights a dramatic down-turn.

The moment Dana started talking about getting into boxing was the cherry on the cake. He’s spoken nothing but ill-words about the sport since working in MMA, and now - following a record PPV with Conor - he wants a piece whilst the UFC is circling the toilet bowl.

Buy Hey! They’re building a state-of-the-art production center that aims to give us endless episodes of TUF/Looking for a fighter etc. It’s not all bad news. Lol.


Great post!

29 days ago
8/20/03
Posts: 143191
Morpheus1976 - 
bungee up -

^Pretty much established that mate.

The question is how much money are they making from broadcasting overseas, ppv or otherwise. 

My guess is far more than their reported earnings suggest. 

i have no idea what they are making from it.


I am going to guess that even if they get paid a flat rate to add it to the content, having it on the telly there is worth while to support the other revenue streams they have.

29 days ago
8/7/06
Posts: 1190
bungee up - 
Flannerz -
bungee up - 
john joe - "The amount of PPVs outside on north America must be highly significant."

they are in fact almost nothing, PPV barely exists outside N.A.

Says who.

I find that hard to believe 


In the UK we have PPV for some boxing events but not for MMA. You have to pay monthly for BT Sport which is the channel the UFC is on but UFC cards are not PPV over here.

So all those ppv cards over the years have been free  if you pay for the cable subscription???? 

If so that's suprising.   I wonder how many other country's that's the case with. 

If that is actually the case then imagine how much the ufc sold the rights for that for. 

I can't help but think though that if that is the case then the uk would surely be the exception. 

The ufc isn't just going around giving away there content for free. They'd be making a fuckload on a global scale, im sure of that.


BT Sport isn't part of the normal cable/satellite subscription. We pay extra for that channel.

All PPVs have been on this channel for the last few years. The only time we had PPV events was on UK UFC shows but the company who did that, Setanta, went bust years ago.
29 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 7283
nek -
The Closed Guard -

The fix isn’t hard, less cards with more star power. Easier way to watch. UFC app that offers the PPV for a reasonable price

I think the fix is somewhat hard, and Eskimo nailed it.  What you described is what the hardcore UFC fans want, but the overall interest simply isn't there.  I've trained with/currently train with all kinds of accomplished combat sports athletes (jiu-jitsu, wrestling, pro/am MMA figthers) as well as hobbyists, and the interest isn't there even amongst this demographic, nevermind the people that don't train or have never trained, whom are a much larger block of the viewing audience.

 I never saw the numbers but when the UFC was priced at 4-5 Billion, I wonder if that valuation was based up the uptrend that was current at the time continuing into the future.  The uptrend during that time was based on the popularity of Ronda (the first woman champion and doing movies) and Conor (a talkative Irishman with an accent and representing one of the largest heritage groups in the United States), not the overall interest in fighting/MMA itself.  The problem with the "building more starpower" idea is that these stars have been very unique with Ronda being the first woman champion and Conor being a guy that all other talkative fighters in the future will be compared to.  There can't be another Ronda, and even if there is another Conor, it won't be a novelty. 

So, in my opinion, I think the issue they have is that the appropriate pricing for the UFC would more likely need to have been based on the pre-Conor/Ronda years, but after the "golden era" when MMA was a novelty still, TUF was cool, and GSP was king of Canada.  Think 2013-2014, that probably more accurately represents interest in MMA, and not "characters".  Again, I'm not some Goldman Sachs valuation expert, but I'm a fan, I train, and I've worked in the bar industry and have seen the ebb/flow of MMA interest.  They're making money, but the concern from my viewpoint is how far away the break even point for the investment is.  Typical Private Equity investments have a 7-10 year horizon at which the projected profitability of the investment is expected to be reached.  Based on the revenue/valuation information we have on the UFC, we're looking at longer than that just to break even.

When I heard the rumors about how much the UFC was selling for, I thought bullshit. No way in hell the UFC was worth the same money as the StarWars franchise. I don't have much of a big buisness brain but I guessed that Star Wars could be way more profitable. I haven't checked but I bet they're killing it.

29 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 7284
Flannerz -
bungee up - 
Flannerz -
bungee up - 
john joe - "The amount of PPVs outside on north America must be highly significant."

they are in fact almost nothing, PPV barely exists outside N.A.

Says who.

I find that hard to believe 


In the UK we have PPV for some boxing events but not for MMA. You have to pay monthly for BT Sport which is the channel the UFC is on but UFC cards are not PPV over here.

So all those ppv cards over the years have been free  if you pay for the cable subscription???? 

If so that's suprising.   I wonder how many other country's that's the case with. 

If that is actually the case then imagine how much the ufc sold the rights for that for. 

I can't help but think though that if that is the case then the uk would surely be the exception. 

The ufc isn't just going around giving away there content for free. They'd be making a fuckload on a global scale, im sure of that.


BT Sport isn't part of the normal cable/satellite subscription. We pay extra for that channel.

All PPVs have been on this channel for the last few years. The only time we had PPV events was on UK UFC shows but the company who did that, Setanta, went bust years ago.

I wish we could watch UFC on a channel instead of that stupid app. 

29 days ago
3/26/13
Posts: 874
BJTT-Frank Rizzo -
nek -
The Closed Guard -

The fix isn’t hard, less cards with more star power. Easier way to watch. UFC app that offers the PPV for a reasonable price

I think the fix is somewhat hard, and Eskimo nailed it.  What you described is what the hardcore UFC fans want, but the overall interest simply isn't there.  I've trained with/currently train with all kinds of accomplished combat sports athletes (jiu-jitsu, wrestling, pro/am MMA figthers) as well as hobbyists, and the interest isn't there even amongst this demographic, nevermind the people that don't train or have never trained, whom are a much larger block of the viewing audience.

 I never saw the numbers but when the UFC was priced at 4-5 Billion, I wonder if that valuation was based up the uptrend that was current at the time continuing into the future.  The uptrend during that time was based on the popularity of Ronda (the first woman champion and doing movies) and Conor (a talkative Irishman with an accent and representing one of the largest heritage groups in the United States), not the overall interest in fighting/MMA itself.  The problem with the "building more starpower" idea is that these stars have been very unique with Ronda being the first woman champion and Conor being a guy that all other talkative fighters in the future will be compared to.  There can't be another Ronda, and even if there is another Conor, it won't be a novelty. 

So, in my opinion, I think the issue they have is that the appropriate pricing for the UFC would more likely need to have been based on the pre-Conor/Ronda years, but after the "golden era" when MMA was a novelty still, TUF was cool, and GSP was king of Canada.  Think 2013-2014, that probably more accurately represents interest in MMA, and not "characters".  Again, I'm not some Goldman Sachs valuation expert, but I'm a fan, I train, and I've worked in the bar industry and have seen the ebb/flow of MMA interest.  They're making money, but the concern from my viewpoint is how far away the break even point for the investment is.  Typical Private Equity investments have a 7-10 year horizon at which the projected profitability of the investment is expected to be reached.  Based on the revenue/valuation information we have on the UFC, we're looking at longer than that just to break even.

When I heard the rumors about how much the UFC was selling for, I thought bullshit. No way in hell the UFC was worth the same money as the StarWars franchise. I don't have much of a big buisness brain but I guessed that Star Wars could be way more profitable. I haven't checked but I bet they're killing it.

It would really be interesting to see all their revenue streams.  

29 days ago
3/26/13
Posts: 875
Captain Canuck -
youarewhatiswrong - 
Captain Canuck -
Right Hand JO Power - 

i wish i could afford to lose 100 million in revenue and still be fucking killing it


This.

I hate when they say they "lost" revenue.

So they made less of a profit than last year?

So...they still made a profit?

If you buy a house and take out a $2k a month mortgage with the belief that you will earn $3k a month, then find your income decreasing every month, when your income gets down to $2200 a month, you’re still paying your bills but do you feel good about things?


When I buy a house I KNOW what my income is.

I don't gamble on what I will earn.

I base it off what I am earning.

But people making investments don't do that most of the time, they're looking to have growth, so they are investing based on potential, not just current.  Predictable investments, while safe, don't yield much.

29 days ago
8/22/14
Posts: 2620

The figures that the ufc were reporting ( 6oo million for instance) revenue per year could quickly be arrived at by basically adding up the estimated ppv buys they did for that year.  I know cos i did the rough calculations in my head at the time.  Not including the properted 50% that supposedly goes to the ppv provider,  which i can gaurentee has been negotiated down significantly by the ufc over the years. 

It doesn't take into account the money for PPVs they were getting from overseas in network deals. The ring sponsorships ,the little adds they play during the event. Merch other than Reebok( boble heads ect if therestill doing them, patentrights on any octagon's sold)( note forgeting the live gate and Reebok deal)

The ufc gyms, the money they make from the used Reebok gear( that gets auctioned off aside from the one piece of kit the fighter gets to keep) , the ufc game.

I know im forgeting some .

Point is , I'm sure there's a lot of coin wrapped up in all that revenue.  

28 days ago
8/20/03
Posts: 143228
nek - 
Captain Canuck -
youarewhatiswrong - 
Captain Canuck -
Right Hand JO Power - 

i wish i could afford to lose 100 million in revenue and still be fucking killing it


This.

I hate when they say they "lost" revenue.

So they made less of a profit than last year?

So...they still made a profit?

If you buy a house and take out a $2k a month mortgage with the belief that you will earn $3k a month, then find your income decreasing every month, when your income gets down to $2200 a month, you’re still paying your bills but do you feel good about things?


When I buy a house I KNOW what my income is.

I don't gamble on what I will earn.

I base it off what I am earning.

But people making investments don't do that most of the time, they're looking to have growth, so they are investing based on potential, not just current.  Predictable investments, while safe, don't yield much.


Fair enough.

But they made the gamble.

Don't cry when it doesn't pay out.

28 days ago
3/26/13
Posts: 880
Captain Canuck -
nek - 
Captain Canuck -
youarewhatiswrong - 
Captain Canuck -
Right Hand JO Power - 

i wish i could afford to lose 100 million in revenue and still be fucking killing it


This.

I hate when they say they "lost" revenue.

So they made less of a profit than last year?

So...they still made a profit?

If you buy a house and take out a $2k a month mortgage with the belief that you will earn $3k a month, then find your income decreasing every month, when your income gets down to $2200 a month, you’re still paying your bills but do you feel good about things?


When I buy a house I KNOW what my income is.

I don't gamble on what I will earn.

I base it off what I am earning.

But people making investments don't do that most of the time, they're looking to have growth, so they are investing based on potential, not just current.  Predictable investments, while safe, don't yield much.


Fair enough.

But they made the gamble.

Don't cry when it doesn't pay out.

I don't think anyone's crying one way or another.  The point that youarewhatiswrong is getting at, is that the value that the company was purchased at may be based on an expected growth in revenue and even if the company is profitable, the horizon for the investment to have a positive return will have to be extended, perhaps significantly.  While it may not seem like much, and money will be made, you have to compare the payoff for having your money tied into the investment for x amount of years vs. having that money tied into another investment for the same amount of time.  It's not as simple as making money vs. losing money.

28 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 24627
ttt
28 days ago
8/13/13
Posts: 1711
The Lion King -

Good. I hope they go out of business. 

Same can't believe we agree on something we should hang out and jack off each other. 

27 days ago
5/30/03
Posts: 41294
Eskimo -
Right Hand JO Power -

i wish i could afford to lose 100 million in revenue and still be fucking killing it

Killing it? You’d pay over 4 billion to get a huge pain in the ass that made you 200 million per year? I’m sure that’s better now with the espn deal, but it’s still nothing special and they’re counting on growth of the sport that I guarantee we don’t see. People under 25 couldn’t give a rat’s ass about mma. One already beat them in Asia. Russia wasn’t anything like they’d hoped. The US market peaked 5 years ago. I bet WME tries to sell it before it becomes obvious what a turd it really is. Zuffa are still the smartest people in the room, and they played it perfectly. 

This fool thought they would pay $4B and make $5B the same year. 

27 days ago
10/28/16
Posts: 2541
^^^ lol he'll claim thats not what he meant yada yada yada
Edited: 27 days ago
11/10/18
Posts: 2551
The Maestro -
Eskimo -
Right Hand JO Power -

i wish i could afford to lose 100 million in revenue and still be fucking killing it

Killing it? You’d pay over 4 billion to get a huge pain in the ass that made you 200 million per year? I’m sure that’s better now with the espn deal, but it’s still nothing special and they’re counting on growth of the sport that I guarantee we don’t see. People under 25 couldn’t give a rat’s ass about mma. One already beat them in Asia. Russia wasn’t anything like they’d hoped. The US market peaked 5 years ago. I bet WME tries to sell it before it becomes obvious what a turd it really is. Zuffa are still the smartest people in the room, and they played it perfectly. 

This fool thought they would pay $4B and make $5B the same year. 

No dumbfuck, I meant they got a 5% roi and bought a shitty job. They could’ve gotten 5% on a passive investment. You’re too dumb to quote me, please don’t do it again.

I spent more money on spilt liquor last year, in bars around the world, then what The Maestro made. 

27 days ago
11/10/18
Posts: 2552
starboy - ^^^ lol he'll claim thats not what he meant yada yada yada

See post above as it applies to you as well, retard.