UnderGround Forums Wait...Malignaggi is a betting underdog vs. Artem?

5/21/19 11:28 PM
10/2/12
Posts: 8507

TBH, I just don’t think bare knuckle is condusive to 300+ punches a round, mostly jabs; you’d break your hand. Add in clinching and, I think, Paulie is in for a long night. Let me qualify this by saying I’m a huge Paulie fan. I cheered for him in the Cano fight and thought he won against Broner. 

5/22/19 12:32 AM
8/19/13
Posts: 6471

Can't find that anywhere.

 

Looking at 1.15 for Paulie and 4.28 for Lobov right now. Pauline is a large favourite 

5/22/19 2:23 AM
1/24/16
Posts: 912
RonaldRaygun -
JOB - People need to understand that this isn't boxing. It's BKB.

Artem is the larger fighter and is in better shape. He is younger and he hits harder.

Paulie is obviously the more skilled boxer. Way more skilled. But he has zero power. And he'll need some power to command the respect of Artem when Artem pushes forward in his barrages. BKB fights are shorter and faster paced than regular boxing matches. Paulie's favours a longer fight where he can use his craftiness to wear his opponent down.

Honestly, it wouldn't suprise me if Artem wins this. Paulie is almost 39 years old and he has no experience in boxing without large gloves. He's a blown up super-lightweight fighting a guy who would be a light-middle or middleweight.

Lunacy.

I have some doubts about this fight and it's legitimacy. Assuming it's legit, the skill disparity is very similiar to Conor vs Floyd... except Paulie isn't gonna be inclined to carry Artem. Paulie could truly break Artem's teeth and piss down his mouth in a boxing ring, just as he claims.

Who came up with this carrying someone BS? Paulie is not going to carry Artem and neither did Floyd carry Conor, what a stupid assumption

5/22/19 2:59 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 7793
Boom Boom Mancino - 

Paulie may have faced some power in the boxing ring, but this setting is a different animal altogether.  Artem literally has nuclear bombs in his hands exploding every time he connects in the Squared Circle That's Really Just a Circle. 

Paulie's still got the proverbial technician's chance, but he's in trouble, real trouble.


Are you trolling or retarded? PM did the full 12 vs a prime Cotto.
5/22/19 8:32 AM
5/7/08
Posts: 21565
dinkledorf -
RonaldRaygun -
JOB - People need to understand that this isn't boxing. It's BKB.

Artem is the larger fighter and is in better shape. He is younger and he hits harder.

Paulie is obviously the more skilled boxer. Way more skilled. But he has zero power. And he'll need some power to command the respect of Artem when Artem pushes forward in his barrages. BKB fights are shorter and faster paced than regular boxing matches. Paulie's favours a longer fight where he can use his craftiness to wear his opponent down.

Honestly, it wouldn't suprise me if Artem wins this. Paulie is almost 39 years old and he has no experience in boxing without large gloves. He's a blown up super-lightweight fighting a guy who would be a light-middle or middleweight.

Lunacy.

I have some doubts about this fight and it's legitimacy. Assuming it's legit, the skill disparity is very similiar to Conor vs Floyd... except Paulie isn't gonna be inclined to carry Artem. Paulie could truly break Artem's teeth and piss down his mouth in a boxing ring, just as he claims.

Who came up with this carrying someone BS? Paulie is not going to carry Artem and neither did Floyd carry Conor, what a stupid assumption

Anyone who doesn't realize how much Floyd carried Conor is a window licking retard

5/22/19 9:11 AM
6/5/15
Posts: 351

i think he probably did. floyd  only threw like 7 punches the first 5 rounds.

5/22/19 9:26 AM
2/9/09
Posts: 8847
dinkledorf -
RonaldRaygun -
JOB - People need to understand that this isn't boxing. It's BKB.

Artem is the larger fighter and is in better shape. He is younger and he hits harder.

Paulie is obviously the more skilled boxer. Way more skilled. But he has zero power. And he'll need some power to command the respect of Artem when Artem pushes forward in his barrages. BKB fights are shorter and faster paced than regular boxing matches. Paulie's favours a longer fight where he can use his craftiness to wear his opponent down.

Honestly, it wouldn't suprise me if Artem wins this. Paulie is almost 39 years old and he has no experience in boxing without large gloves. He's a blown up super-lightweight fighting a guy who would be a light-middle or middleweight.

Lunacy.

I have some doubts about this fight and it's legitimacy. Assuming it's legit, the skill disparity is very similiar to Conor vs Floyd... except Paulie isn't gonna be inclined to carry Artem. Paulie could truly break Artem's teeth and piss down his mouth in a boxing ring, just as he claims.

Who came up with this carrying someone BS? Paulie is not going to carry Artem and neither did Floyd carry Conor, what a stupid assumption

Are you serious? Mayweather could have ended it in round 1 if he wanted

5/22/19 11:32 AM
1/12/05
Posts: 62105

People who think Floyd carried McGregor have never seen Mayweather fight before. That's what he does against everyone. He did the same shit against Zab Judah. Floyd takes the first 4 rounds to feel his opponent out and then picks it up. He's been doing it for 20 years. 

5/22/19 11:36 AM
1/12/05
Posts: 62106

Paulie at his best was one of the toughest and most technical boxers in the world, but he lacked the power to back his opponents off of him. Paulie is 10 years past his best, which should still be more than enough to school Artem. He took everything Hatton and Cotto had to throw at him. 

 

The skill gap is a mile wide, so wide that this thing shouldn't even be sanctioned, yet Artem (who isn't even a competent MMA striker) is only +275. 

5/22/19 11:49 AM
7/15/04
Posts: 55870

Lord Artem is going to bring the heat to Paulie. Despite Paulie being years past his prime, he has enough skill to school Artem if his hands hold up. 

If Artem can make this a messy clinch brawl it might not be the blowout people might think. 

 

5/22/19 11:50 AM
6/2/04
Posts: 9163
EckY -
PhillyFights - 
Bobby Lupo -

Paulie's an almost 3-1 fave with something like 75% of bets going his way. 

Wtf was Feldman talking about then? At the press conference he said “believe it or not Lobov is the betting favorite.”  I thought I heard him wrong, but he said it, and at least 1 online site had it. And I forget if it was him or someone else who said the money started comin in on Artem after the Knight fight, as tho Artem getting disfigured by the grappler and squeaking out a win boded well for him. 


All legitimate bookies have Paulie at around -275.

The only site I see listing him as an underdog is that shady offshore scam site in the op.

That makes a lot more sense. I google "malignaggi vs. lobov betting line" and the link I posted is the first one that popped up. I guess I should have looked harder. 

5/22/19 11:58 AM
6/2/04
Posts: 9164
We Are All One Mean Species -
RonaldRaygun - 
JOB - People need to understand that this isn't boxing. It's BKB.

Artem is the larger fighter and is in better shape. He is younger and he hits harder.

Paulie is obviously the more skilled boxer. Way more skilled. But he has zero power. And he'll need some power to command the respect of Artem when Artem pushes forward in his barrages. BKB fights are shorter and faster paced than regular boxing matches. Paulie's favours a longer fight where he can use his craftiness to wear his opponent down.

Honestly, it wouldn't suprise me if Artem wins this. Paulie is almost 39 years old and he has no experience in boxing without large gloves. He's a blown up super-lightweight fighting a guy who would be a light-middle or middleweight.

Lunacy.

I have some doubts about this fight and it's legitimacy. Assuming it's legit, the skill disparity is very similiar to Conor vs Floyd... except Paulie isn't gonna be inclined to carry Artem. Paulie could truly break Artem's teeth and piss down his mouth in a boxing ring, just as he claims.


Conor landed some good shots on Floyd in the beginning of their fight. Defense is markedly different without gloves. I wouldnt be surprised if Paulie does get sparked by a punch or two in the beginning.

I think training for Bareknuckle is tough. And having a fight experience is huge.

So you've never watched Paulie fight, huh? Head movement and footwork don't change when you remove the gloves...I'm still struggling with all the Conor vs. Floyd comparisons too for a couple reasons. First, Conor is arguably the best striker in MMA. If not the best, he's very close to the top. He put away just about everyone he fought, and looked like a god when he fought Eddie Alvarez. Artem is not a good striker, even by MMA standards. 

Second, even though Conor is a top tier MMA striker, he was Floyd's easiest fight in a decade. It was fun to watch, but at no point was the fight in doubt, at no point was Floyd hurt, at no point was he not 100% in control. If you came away from that fight thinking Conor gave him any trouble at all, you likely aren't a boxing fan. I'm yet to find someone who actively watches boxing think otherwise. 

Unless Artem gets extremely lucky...like one in a million lucky, he's going to get destroyed. 

5/22/19 12:10 PM
6/2/04
Posts: 9165
Bobby Lupo -

People who think Floyd carried McGregor have never seen Mayweather fight before. That's what he does against everyone. He did the same shit against Zab Judah. Floyd takes the first 4 rounds to feel his opponent out and then picks it up. He's been doing it for 20 years. 

I think people are using the word "carried" differently. Some take it to mean that Floyd intentionally didn't fight Conor hard because it was Conor, and he wanted to make it look like a real fight...where others take it to mean that Floyd wasn't trying all that hard to stop Conor early. 

I agree with you 100%, Mayweather fought like he always does, was never in danger, and knew he'd keep breaking him down for either an eventual stoppage, or a lopsided decision...and alot of MMA guys don't realize that Floyd fights at that pace often, and the reason lots of fans hate him is because even when he knows he's waaaaaaaayyyyyy better than the guy he's fighting, he's content doing just enough to win the rounds. He doesn't give a shit if he's exciting, and doesn't give a shit if you like his fights. As long as he wins without any real convtroversy and doesn't take much damage, that's what he's looking for. 

I can't blame the guy either, because how many multiple time world champions retire without taking a ton of damage? Either way...all the talk about needing to embarrass Conor leading up to the fight was just that...talk. He fought safe until it became obvious that putting his foot on the gas would still be safe, because Conor had nothing left. That was Floyd's first real stoppage since 2007...his only stoppage in that time was the Ortiz fight, and he hit the fucking guy when he was trying to apologize for a foul. It was legal, but the MMA equivalent would be hitting a guy when he tried to touch gloves. It's perfectly legal, but obviously scummy. 

So basically Floyd never stopped anyone in the last 10 years, and fought the same slow pace he always does, stopped Conor when he felt like stopping him, and MMA fans still act like Conor make Floyd work his ass off in there. 

5/22/19 12:35 PM
7/10/15
Posts: 604

The promotors must be bettin big on a paulie win

5/22/19 2:01 PM
11/18/09
Posts: 11172

I don’t know if this is considered carrying, but Paulie repeatedly has said he wants to torture him for a few rounds and then put him away. Doesn’t want an early KO. 

5/22/19 2:49 PM
1/8/04
Posts: 12246
Do people really think this fight is going to be competitive?
5/22/19 2:59 PM
5/15/15
Posts: 1488
EckY -
JOB - People need to understand that this isn't boxing. It's BKB.

Artem is the larger fighter and is in better shape. He is younger and he hits harder.

Paulie is obviously the more skilled boxer. Way more skilled. But he has zero power. And he'll need some power to command the respect of Artem when Artem pushes forward in his barrages. BKB fights are shorter and faster paced than regular boxing matches. Paulie's favours a longer fight where he can use his craftiness to wear his opponent down.

Honestly, it wouldn't suprise me if Artem wins this. Paulie is almost 39 years old and he has no experience in boxing without large gloves. He's a blown up super-lightweight fighting a guy who would be a light-middle or middleweight.

All legit bookies and UK and Ireland have Paulie has an overwhelming favourite.

These offshore bookies Americans use are scams and filled with shady practices.

Yeah about 1/2... which is still nuts!!!!! Seems like free money.. I honestly cant see Lobov surviving the first combo... kind of hope I'm wrong though..

Edited: 5/22/19 3:55 PM
12/7/14
Posts: 2765
Rickmassmma -
Bobby Lupo -

People who think Floyd carried McGregor have never seen Mayweather fight before. That's what he does against everyone. He did the same shit against Zab Judah. Floyd takes the first 4 rounds to feel his opponent out and then picks it up. He's been doing it for 20 years. 

I think people are using the word "carried" differently. Some take it to mean that Floyd intentionally didn't fight Conor hard because it was Conor, and he wanted to make it look like a real fight...where others take it to mean that Floyd wasn't trying all that hard to stop Conor early. 

I agree with you 100%, Mayweather fought like he always does, was never in danger, and knew he'd keep breaking him down for either an eventual stoppage, or a lopsided decision...and alot of MMA guys don't realize that Floyd fights at that pace often, and the reason lots of fans hate him is because even when he knows he's waaaaaaaayyyyyy better than the guy he's fighting, he's content doing just enough to win the rounds. He doesn't give a shit if he's exciting, and doesn't give a shit if you like his fights. As long as he wins without any real convtroversy and doesn't take much damage, that's what he's looking for. 

I can't blame the guy either, because how many multiple time world champions retire without taking a ton of damage? Either way...all the talk about needing to embarrass Conor leading up to the fight was just that...talk. He fought safe until it became obvious that putting his foot on the gas would still be safe, because Conor had nothing left. That was Floyd's first real stoppage since 2007...his only stoppage in that time was the Ortiz fight, and he hit the fucking guy when he was trying to apologize for a foul. It was legal, but the MMA equivalent would be hitting a guy when he tried to touch gloves. It's perfectly legal, but obviously scummy. 

So basically Floyd never stopped anyone in the last 10 years, and fought the same slow pace he always does, stopped Conor when he felt like stopping him, and MMA fans still act like Conor make Floyd work his ass off in there. 

it looked like he didn't even give a shit about winning the early rounds, and was in danger of losing a decision if Conor was somehow able to hang on for 12.

I thought John Danaher had it pegged pretty well, too:

 

"My experience of watching very good MMA athletes spar against elite boxers in the gym is always the same - they are quite competitive for the first 3-4 rounds and do surprisingly well. Then around the 5th round the elite boxer begins to figure out the unorthodox or awkward movement and begins to employ ring craft tactics to tire the MMA athlete by making him work harder than he is, making him miss punches etc etc. around the 8th round a very noticeable shift occurs where the elite boxer takes over. I expect a similar pattern tonight

5/22/19 4:11 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 7795
Artem's best chance in this fight is the fragility of Paulie's hands.
5/22/19 4:21 PM
6/2/04
Posts: 9167
Boom Boom Mancino -
Rickmassmma -
Bobby Lupo -

People who think Floyd carried McGregor have never seen Mayweather fight before. That's what he does against everyone. He did the same shit against Zab Judah. Floyd takes the first 4 rounds to feel his opponent out and then picks it up. He's been doing it for 20 years. 

I think people are using the word "carried" differently. Some take it to mean that Floyd intentionally didn't fight Conor hard because it was Conor, and he wanted to make it look like a real fight...where others take it to mean that Floyd wasn't trying all that hard to stop Conor early. 

I agree with you 100%, Mayweather fought like he always does, was never in danger, and knew he'd keep breaking him down for either an eventual stoppage, or a lopsided decision...and alot of MMA guys don't realize that Floyd fights at that pace often, and the reason lots of fans hate him is because even when he knows he's waaaaaaaayyyyyy better than the guy he's fighting, he's content doing just enough to win the rounds. He doesn't give a shit if he's exciting, and doesn't give a shit if you like his fights. As long as he wins without any real convtroversy and doesn't take much damage, that's what he's looking for. 

I can't blame the guy either, because how many multiple time world champions retire without taking a ton of damage? Either way...all the talk about needing to embarrass Conor leading up to the fight was just that...talk. He fought safe until it became obvious that putting his foot on the gas would still be safe, because Conor had nothing left. That was Floyd's first real stoppage since 2007...his only stoppage in that time was the Ortiz fight, and he hit the fucking guy when he was trying to apologize for a foul. It was legal, but the MMA equivalent would be hitting a guy when he tried to touch gloves. It's perfectly legal, but obviously scummy. 

So basically Floyd never stopped anyone in the last 10 years, and fought the same slow pace he always does, stopped Conor when he felt like stopping him, and MMA fans still act like Conor make Floyd work his ass off in there. 

it looked like he didn't even give a shit about winning the early rounds, and was in danger of losing a decision if Conor was somehow able to hang on for 12.

I thought John Danaher had it pegged pretty well, too:

 

"My experience of watching very good MMA athletes spar against elite boxers in the gym is always the same - they are quite competitive for the first 3-4 rounds and do surprisingly well. Then around the 5th round the elite boxer begins to figure out the unorthodox or awkward movement and begins to employ ring craft tactics to tire the MMA athlete by making him work harder than he is, making him miss punches etc etc. around the 8th round a very noticeable shift occurs where the elite boxer takes over. I expect a similar pattern tonight

Great quote from John...the only thing I think we need to quantify is what "doing quite well" means. IMO Conor did quite well against Floyd early, meaning it wasn't a complete shit show, and people watching it said "wow, this isn't as much of a farce as I thought it was going to be." At no point in those early rounds do I think Floyd said "damn, this guy is tough." I think he likely had harder sparring sessions leading up to the fight. I'm sure that offends Conor fans, but it's the truth. 

As for Floyd being in danger of losing a decision, Conor won round 1 on all 3 cards, but didn't win another round on even 2 of the judges cards. One judge gave Conor the first 3, then no other rounds. I think a lot of people confused making it competitive with winning rounds. 

One last thing on the Malignaggi vs Artem thing. Lots of people are saying Paulie has no power...but he had KO's early in his career, and the dudes he was knocking out who were like 18-2 at the time would beat Artem in a boxing match. Artem is not a good boxer. Paulie fought nothing but killers for most of his career. 

Look at KJ Noons. He was a considered a great MMA striker, and had 9 KO's in his 13 wins...pieced up Nick Diaz really well in his first fight with him. As a boxer, KJ was 13-2 with 5 KO's...not exactly a big puncher in that world. Compare that to Paulie's first 15 pro boxing fights...he was 15-0 with 5 KO. I realize it's not a perfect comparison, but my point is that Paulie was knocking guys out when he wasn't fighting killers and likely has waaaaaayyyyyy more power than MMA fans are giving him credit for...and it's not always the power that hurts guys, it's the speed and timing, and Paulie...even at this stage in his career will be faster and slicker than anyone Artem has ever fought. 

Edited: 5/22/19 4:46 PM
12/7/14
Posts: 2766
Rickmassmma -
Boom Boom Mancino -
Rickmassmma -
Bobby Lupo -

People who think Floyd carried McGregor have never seen Mayweather fight before. That's what he does against everyone. He did the same shit against Zab Judah. Floyd takes the first 4 rounds to feel his opponent out and then picks it up. He's been doing it for 20 years. 

I think people are using the word "carried" differently. Some take it to mean that Floyd intentionally didn't fight Conor hard because it was Conor, and he wanted to make it look like a real fight...where others take it to mean that Floyd wasn't trying all that hard to stop Conor early. 

I agree with you 100%, Mayweather fought like he always does, was never in danger, and knew he'd keep breaking him down for either an eventual stoppage, or a lopsided decision...and alot of MMA guys don't realize that Floyd fights at that pace often, and the reason lots of fans hate him is because even when he knows he's waaaaaaaayyyyyy better than the guy he's fighting, he's content doing just enough to win the rounds. He doesn't give a shit if he's exciting, and doesn't give a shit if you like his fights. As long as he wins without any real convtroversy and doesn't take much damage, that's what he's looking for. 

I can't blame the guy either, because how many multiple time world champions retire without taking a ton of damage? Either way...all the talk about needing to embarrass Conor leading up to the fight was just that...talk. He fought safe until it became obvious that putting his foot on the gas would still be safe, because Conor had nothing left. That was Floyd's first real stoppage since 2007...his only stoppage in that time was the Ortiz fight, and he hit the fucking guy when he was trying to apologize for a foul. It was legal, but the MMA equivalent would be hitting a guy when he tried to touch gloves. It's perfectly legal, but obviously scummy. 

So basically Floyd never stopped anyone in the last 10 years, and fought the same slow pace he always does, stopped Conor when he felt like stopping him, and MMA fans still act like Conor make Floyd work his ass off in there. 

it looked like he didn't even give a shit about winning the early rounds, and was in danger of losing a decision if Conor was somehow able to hang on for 12.

I thought John Danaher had it pegged pretty well, too:

 

"My experience of watching very good MMA athletes spar against elite boxers in the gym is always the same - they are quite competitive for the first 3-4 rounds and do surprisingly well. Then around the 5th round the elite boxer begins to figure out the unorthodox or awkward movement and begins to employ ring craft tactics to tire the MMA athlete by making him work harder than he is, making him miss punches etc etc. around the 8th round a very noticeable shift occurs where the elite boxer takes over. I expect a similar pattern tonight

Great quote from John...the only thing I think we need to quantify is what "doing quite well" means. IMO Conor did quite well against Floyd early, meaning it wasn't a complete shit show, and people watching it said "wow, this isn't as much of a farce as I thought it was going to be." At no point in those early rounds do I think Floyd said "damn, this guy is tough." I think he likely had harder sparring sessions leading up to the fight. I'm sure that offends Conor fans, but it's the truth. 

As for Floyd being in danger of losing a decision, Conor won round 1 on all 3 cards, but didn't win another round on even 2 of the judges cards. One judge gave Conor the first 3, then no other rounds. I think a lot of people confused making it competitive with winning rounds. 

One last thing on the Malignaggi vs Artem thing. Lots of people are saying Paulie has no power...but he had KO's early in his career, and the dudes he was knocking out who were like 18-2 at the time would beat Artem in a boxing match. Artem is not a good boxer. Paulie fought nothing but killers for most of his career. 

Look at KJ Noons. He was a considered a great MMA striker, and had 9 KO's in his 13 wins...pieced up Nick Diaz really well in his first fight with him. As a boxer, KJ was 13-2 with 5 KO's...not exactly a big puncher in that world. Compare that to Paulie's first 15 pro boxing fights...he was 15-0 with 5 KO. I realize it's not a perfect comparison, but my point is that Paulie was knocking guys out when he wasn't fighting killers and likely has waaaaaayyyyyy more power than MMA fans are giving him credit for...and it's not always the power that hurts guys, it's the speed and timing, and Paulie...even at this stage in his career will be faster and slicker than anyone Artem has ever fought. 

oh wow, interesting - from what I recall, the broadcaster types like Al Bernstein and even Teddy Atlas were giving Conor far more rounds than that. (of course I may have been getting that from one or more of the dozens of breathless posts from the latest ThiaGuy incarnation!)

5/22/19 5:28 PM
1/12/05
Posts: 62107

Excellent posts from Rickmassmma and Boom Boom. Look, I bet the under on Conor landing 40 punches in the fight. I didn't think he'd win a single round. Floyd fought his usual fight, Conor was able to land because he gave a different look than Floyd was expecting. Conor mugged Paulie in sparring with dirty inside fighting and holding and hitting. That's what Floyd thought he was getting, then Conor starts touching him without putting anything on his punches. Conor's best moment of the fight was also the turning point where Floyd knew there was no power to fear. Conor landed that nice counter uppercut flush on Floyd and Mayweather seemed like he didn't even feel it. From there, he knew McGregor didn't have the type of power he was rumored to have and saw him fading fast. He got him out of there once he started to walk him down and lead. If there's a rematch, Floyd will finish Conor in under 6 now that he's fully aware that Conor doesn't have any Dim Mak. 

Malignaggi has had hand issues since the start of his pro career. They've robbed him of power, but allowed for him to become a much more technical offensive boxer with slick defense. There should be no chance for Artem to get in on Paulie's chest and start grabbing. I see Artem being completely overwhelmed by Paulie's footwork, head movement and slips. When Artem misses wildly, he'll get countered. When Artem starts thinking about throwing a punch, Paulie's going to clip him with jabs and be out of the way before Artem finishes the thought. 

Artem's a tough guy and a bleeded. He's not going to quit, but it's going to look like a horror movie. 

5/22/19 5:59 PM
8/19/13
Posts: 6476
wu jitsu -

i think he probably did. floyd  only threw like 7 punches the first 5 rounds.

He threw 85 punches in the first 5 rounds.

5/22/19 6:14 PM
9/27/18
Posts: 345
Didnt Mayweather say he wasnt impressed by Connor's punching power? Said he was average or so?
5/22/19 7:05 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 8319
Allah > Paulie