UnderGround Forums Which popular fighter will have the worst CTE?

9 days ago
8/2/11
Posts: 3477
Kessle37 -

Schaub anyone who listens to the podcasts knows this. 

Shaub had CTE before he started in sports

9 days ago
1/26/10
Posts: 1771
Kirik -
Choked72 - 
Kirik -

I have followed CTE pretty closely, and I don't think it's the monster KOs that does it. I think it's the sub-concussive blows from sparring 3 x a week, for 20 years. So the guys most likely to develop CTE are not going to be obvious from looking at the ass end of highlight reels.

Can you elaborate on what you see as some of the other variables to accelerating CTE?

For example, size/weight class? Lifestyle? Diet? Sport(I assume boxing would be the most impactful)?


The number on contributing factor is head trauma. After that, even for smart people, it's just guess work. For me, it's like making s up.

But,  yah, I think it's the hard sparring. It sort of stands to reason biologically. Via falls, violence, etc, we get hit hugely in the head occassionally during our life. That should leave us f'd to tears. But I don't think we are woodpeckers, built to take endless head trauma. I mean, evolutionarily, how would that happen?

After head trauma, and this is purely anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth which is about nothing, I think partying (drugs and probably more significantly alcohol) plays a huge role. It could simply be that beer is a diuertic. But I've seen guys that never booze seemingly do fine, and guys who party hard seem to get punchy more readily. It's not like a hard and fast rule, but def seems to trend that way.

And I think heavyweights get less CTE than I would expect, I think maybe because they don't cut.

I am super interested in what other people might think?

 

repeated subconcussive head trauma (years of hard sparring)

concussions (lights are shut off for a reason)

partying (alcohol, cocaine, etc)

genetics

 

I personally believe it is the make up of these 4 things.  I was talking to a friend of Meldrick Taylor's one time at the gym.  He said Meldrick was having some problems.  I asked if it was the JC Chavez fight, but he thought it was more the Philadelphia gym wars (legendary back then) and his hard party lifestyle that contributed the most to it. 

Obviously getting knocked out then having the back of your head bounce off the canvas can cause damage.  Some guys seem to be genetically immune to the cognitive damage, while others develop problems that you would not expect (did not take as much abuse  in comparison to others).  Some people have thicker skulls and tougher, more elastic blood vessels for example.

9 days ago
7/4/09
Posts: 1289
Johnzandt -
Kirik -

I have followed CTE pretty closely, and I don't think it's the monster KOs that does it. I think it's the sub-concussive blows from sparring 3 x a week, for 20 years. So the guys most likely to develop CTE are not going to be obvious from looking at the ass end of highlight reels.

In that case, most of fucking Chute Box

This

Edited: 9 days ago
8/23/12
Posts: 692

Sanchez & Gaethje imo

That said, which is more likely to cause CTE, that one huge KO or years of hard fights & hard sparring? I'd guess the latter. 

9 days ago
8/18/13
Posts: 9096

Lawler & Sanchez stand out to me as two guys that have taken a hell of a lot of hits 

9 days ago
8/18/13
Posts: 9097
Kirik -
Choked72 - 
Kirik -

I have followed CTE pretty closely, and I don't think it's the monster KOs that does it. I think it's the sub-concussive blows from sparring 3 x a week, for 20 years. So the guys most likely to develop CTE are not going to be obvious from looking at the ass end of highlight reels.

Can you elaborate on what you see as some of the other variables to accelerating CTE?

For example, size/weight class? Lifestyle? Diet? Sport(I assume boxing would be the most impactful)?


The number on contributing factor is head trauma. After that, even for smart people, it's just guess work. For me, it's like making s up.

But,  yah, I think it's the hard sparring. It sort of stands to reason biologically. Via falls, violence, etc, we get hit hugely in the head occassionally during our life. That should leave us f'd to tears. But I don't think we are woodpeckers, built to take endless head trauma. I mean, evolutionarily, how would that happen?

After head trauma, and this is purely anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth which is about nothing, I think partying (drugs and probably more significantly alcohol) plays a huge role. It could simply be that beer is a diuertic. But I've seen guys that never booze seemingly do fine, and guys who party hard seem to get punchy more readily. It's not like a hard and fast rule, but def seems to trend that way.

And I think heavyweights get less CTE than I would expect, I think maybe because they don't cut.

I am super interested in what other people might think?

 

Long arse way of saying you think Jon Jones is fucked Kirik.. 

9 days ago
2/17/03
Posts: 13917
PaulfromNY - 

If the CTE risk was as prevalent as the scientific consensus says we'd have a lot more ex football players walking around with it. A decent size percentage of people play football in high school and college in this country and they go on and have careers and families. At some level the risk is overblown for the hobbyist or student athlete. 

 

However, it may be real for boxing and MMA


lol, glad you're on the case and proving those pesky scientists and doctors wrong.
9 days ago
11/1/03
Posts: 20514
OKMike -
Kirik -
Choked72 - 
Kirik -

I have followed CTE pretty closely, and I don't think it's the monster KOs that does it. I think it's the sub-concussive blows from sparring 3 x a week, for 20 years. So the guys most likely to develop CTE are not going to be obvious from looking at the ass end of highlight reels.

Can you elaborate on what you see as some of the other variables to accelerating CTE?

For example, size/weight class? Lifestyle? Diet? Sport(I assume boxing would be the most impactful)?


The number on contributing factor is head trauma. After that, even for smart people, it's just guess work. For me, it's like making s up.

But,  yah, I think it's the hard sparring. It sort of stands to reason biologically. Via falls, violence, etc, we get hit hugely in the head occassionally during our life. That should leave us f'd to tears. But I don't think we are woodpeckers, built to take endless head trauma. I mean, evolutionarily, how would that happen?

After head trauma, and this is purely anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth which is about nothing, I think partying (drugs and probably more significantly alcohol) plays a huge role. It could simply be that beer is a diuertic. But I've seen guys that never booze seemingly do fine, and guys who party hard seem to get punchy more readily. It's not like a hard and fast rule, but def seems to trend that way.

And I think heavyweights get less CTE than I would expect, I think maybe because they don't cut.

I am super interested in what other people might think?

 

repeated subconcussive head trauma (years of hard sparring)

concussions (lights are shut off for a reason)

partying (alcohol, cocaine, etc)

genetics

 

I personally believe it is the make up of these 4 things.  I was talking to a friend of Meldrick Taylor's one time at the gym.  He said Meldrick was having some problems.  I asked if it was the JC Chavez fight, but he thought it was more the Philadelphia gym wars (legendary back then) and his hard party lifestyle that contributed the most to it. 

Obviously getting knocked out then having the back of your head bounce off the canvas can cause damage.  Some guys seem to be genetically immune to the cognitive damage, while others develop problems that you would not expect (did not take as much abuse  in comparison to others).  Some people have thicker skulls and tougher, more elastic blood vessels for example.

Have to agree with your assesment. It seems the most logical. What % of each factor is debateable. I wonder if any potential cure is out there?

9 days ago
2/4/15
Posts: 502

 

9 days ago
1/1/11
Posts: 6937

Robbies opponents 

8 days ago
7/17/17
Posts: 43

I haven't like the way Nate Diaz sounds for a while.

Also have heard Robbie Lawler a few times, kind of slurring, then later sounding ok....

8 days ago
7/17/17
Posts: 44
wiggum -
jpm995 - 
wiggum - ^^Not always.

The new consensus is that headgear does not mitigate brain trauma. It prevents cuts and bruising, but, if anything, increases the likelihood of brain damage.

First, it increases the size of the 'target.' thereby increasing the number of times people get hit. Second, it makes fighters spar more recklessly, because the cost of a head shot feels lower. Third, fighters throw harder when they spar with headgear. These three factors cost more in terms of brain damage than whatever help headgear provides.

I find this hard to believe. Would that mean football players would be better off without helmets? I guess its more complicated than most would think. Amature boxers require headgear so i think many would disagree with you. My guess all contact sports are dangerous and could likely lead to cte. Feel sorry for the athletes who have given so much for their sports only to be robbed of a normal old age.


There is actually a fair bit of consensus that less padding would increase the safety of football. Less padding would limit the extent to which football players can use their bodies as projectiles. Generally, it's hard to imagine football possibly being worse on the brain than it currently is.

FWIW, I've been coaching professional MMA for a decade now and I've read and thought about this issue quite a bit because my brain and my fighters' brains depend on it. My views are on the right side of the limited research base.

And boxing is moving toward eliminating head gear. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/07/sports/olympics/making-olympic-boxing-safer-by-eliminating-head-guards.html

interesting to see if rugby players suffer the same cte as american footballers,

or old time football players who just used the small leather helmets.

even soccer players are showing cte from heading the ball, which is now not allowed in most little league soccer.

8 days ago
1/14/12
Posts: 5843

Hopefully none but Diego is guy I would be concerned about that’s still active.

The soccer concerns even had them thinking about removing headers from the game for under 21s at one point.