UnderGround Forums Wrestling should it be banned from UFC ?

9/7/19 6:41 PM
7/21/18
Posts: 570

Shut the fuck up

9/7/19 6:47 PM
7/2/07
Posts: 13879
The Lion King - 

Taking away headbutts, knees to downed opponents, padding the floors with mats so slams are less impactful, having cage or ropes to lean on, gloves and hand tape to make boxing more effective, Dana bitching at or even firing/not hiring people for wrestling and not engaging striking more (fitch, Shields, askren, etc.), the UFC literally paying fighters more to be strikers through post fight bonuses, etc. already does enough to negate wrestling.

But wrestlers still dominate because wrestling is by far the most competitive and elite level combat sport. 

Go watch boxing or kickboxing if you can’t accept that. 


"But wrestlers still dominate because wrestling is by far the most competitive and elite level combat sport. "


So you acknowledge it is a problem. How do we work to improve the problem ?

It is ok for wrestlers to dominate but it would be more exciting without the use of stalling tactics employed by many wrestlers.


9/7/19 6:53 PM
8/15/11
Posts: 1140

Your thread title and actual comment are not really connected. 

 

Of course wrestling shouldn't be banned. 

 

Introduction of rules to make people rush and take more risks would be welcome however. The same way people say 'watch boxing or kickboxing' you can say 'watch wrestling or BJJ' to those that don't mind a 14  minute positional grappling exchange in a 15 minute fight. 

 

People want to watch mixed martial arts not a single discipline. If you can't do damage or go for something in less than a minute you should be stood up. If you can't get a takedown against the cage after hugging a while you should be separated. 

A sense of urgency will help the sport and the fighters get more money. Nobody watches boxing for a hug fest and they separate them. 

 

It is illogical to not encourage action via strikes or sub attempts during a grappling exchange. You fail you try again. Not you fail but take your time maybe after 3.5 minutes you will pass guard and maybe attempt a strike or sub. 

 

Yellow cards were a good thing back in pride (albeit a dreadful penalty to a fighter). Perhaps a point deduction is good. 

 

The objective for a fan is to see a clear winner in a fight. That can only be enhanced by making grapple-heavy fighters go for GNP and subs. It isn't a pure striking sport nor a pure grappling sport. So some compromise is needed in the ruleset to avoid a scenario where frequent takedowns win a decision without much damage to a fighter. 

9/7/19 7:10 PM
3/17/14
Posts: 2076
williepep -
An Old Shoe - 

I like it the way it is. So if poirier put khabib dick in the dirt with a punch should we call for a rule change on striking?




I am not focused on this one fight.


No because lucky punches happen just like lucky takedowns happen.


It is the use of techniques and approaches that would likely be called as stalling by a good wrestling referee.

I agree with a stalling card or something but to take wrestling completely out is not

9/7/19 7:17 PM
10/14/07
Posts: 5041
An Old Shoe - 
williepep -
An Old Shoe - 

I like it the way it is. So if poirier put khabib dick in the dirt with a punch should we call for a rule change on striking?




I am not focused on this one fight.


No because lucky punches happen just like lucky takedowns happen.


It is the use of techniques and approaches that would likely be called as stalling by a good wrestling referee.

I agree with a stalling card or something but to take wrestling completely out is not


If your going to use the argument that keeping someone pinned against the cage is stalling then the same thing can be said about guys on their "bike" when they keeping it standing ?

Two way street.
9/7/19 7:25 PM
10/26/05
Posts: 4409

Absolutley. Also... No jabs or leg kicks. Only power shots. If a strike is not intended to KO someone, it should be a 1 point deduction. 

9/7/19 7:29 PM
7/2/07
Posts: 13880
JOESONDO - 
williepep - Rule changes involving elbows, up kicks, and soccer kicks, knee on mat etc all favor wrestling as well as removed some of BJJ's weapons. Greatly encourages parts of the wrestling game and makes it less dangerous to rely on.


Not to mention time limits being introduced is a great disadvantage to old school BJJ>


The idea is that some rules could be modified to make the game more spectator friendly.

If you are talking about removing rules, then yes. Allow knees on the ground, upkciks and 12 to 6 elbows. Give the fighters the tools to make it an exciting fight and the guy on the bottom the ability to defend themselves. 

If you are referring to adding rules, FUCK THAT


Most people likely object to brutal groin shots like the ones delivered to Keith Hackney


But the items you mentioned once banned tipped the rules in favor of wrestlers, specifically made the stalling aspects and tactics of wrestling more possible. For example little harder to use some of the wrestling rides if the guy on bottom can use 12-6 elbows. Being in someone's guard suddenly becomes more dangerous rather than being an advantageous striking top ride postition.


Not to mention the other items you listed once banned made a of missed takedown less dangerous.

The rules you listed once banned tilted the playing field in favor of wrestlers and in particular the stalling tactics of wrestling. Allows for people to camp out in otherwise dangerous positions.


9/7/19 7:37 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 32163
williepep - Rule changes involving elbows, up kicks, and soccer kicks, knee on mat etc all favor wrestling as well as removed some of BJJ's weapons. Greatly encourages parts of the wrestling game and makes it less dangerous to rely on.


Not to mention time limits being introduced is a great disadvantage to old school BJJ>


The idea is that some rules could be modified to make the game more spectator friendly.

Those rules were made to help strikers lol.

Give wrestlers truck driver elbows, knees and kicks to a downed opponent, and wrestlers would be dominant.

9/7/19 7:52 PM
4/2/11
Posts: 6657

It would be nice to have a timer set once a takedown is landed. If the guy on top can't get a finish after 20 seconds, stand them up. If a fighter gets a submission hold and can't finish after 20 seconds, deduct a point.

9/7/19 7:55 PM
11/24/02
Posts: 1192

How can you say that fight was boring? You obviously know nothing about the art of MMA. 

9/7/19 8:00 PM
2/24/19
Posts: 330

I too have been involved in wrestling a long time ... since before you were a gleam in your Daddy’s eye. (Wrestled from 1957-1970 / break for Vietnam / coached wrestling at all levels from 1975 - 2012 / member NWHOF for Lifetime Service to Wrestling class of 2012. I speak with assurance that the OP has a Circle of Willis chock full of Fecaliths ... Wrestling is the heart of MMA. 

9/7/19 8:02 PM
10/24/10
Posts: 3473
chupecabre -

Absolutley. Also... No jabs or leg kicks. Only power shots. If a strike is not intended to KO someone, it should be a 1 point deduction. 

I would take it one step further. Any power shot landed that doesn't produce a ko or blood get docked a point.

Edited: 9/7/19 8:06 PM
11/24/02
Posts: 1193
williepep -
The Lion King - 

Taking away headbutts, knees to downed opponents, padding the floors with mats so slams are less impactful, having cage or ropes to lean on, gloves and hand tape to make boxing more effective, Dana bitching at or even firing/not hiring people for wrestling and not engaging striking more (fitch, Shields, askren, etc.), the UFC literally paying fighters more to be strikers through post fight bonuses, etc. already does enough to negate wrestling.

But wrestlers still dominate because wrestling is by far the most competitive and elite level combat sport. 

Go watch boxing or kickboxing if you can’t accept that. 


"But wrestlers still dominate because wrestling is by far the most competitive and elite level combat sport. "


So you acknowledge it is a problem. How do we work to improve the problem ?

It is ok for wrestlers to dominate but it would be more exciting without the use of stalling tactics employed by many wrestlers.

 

It isn’t stalling. It is one man dominating the other man. Inforcing his will upon his opponent. If the guy on the bottom can’t get up it just means he is the lesser combatant. We should not create handicaps to increase the less skilled fighter’s chances of winning! If we did that then the integrity of the sport would disappear. It would no longer be mixed martial arts and we would no longer know who the real winner would be. 

 

I suggest you go watch kickboxing.

9/7/19 8:19 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 46801

u cant wrestle u cant fight and dollars to donuts OP sucks at wrestling

9/7/19 8:23 PM
3/16/18
Posts: 5755
tbi0904 -
chupecabre -

Absolutley. Also... No jabs or leg kicks. Only power shots. If a strike is not intended to KO someone, it should be a 1 point deduction. 

I would take it one step further. Any power shot landed that doesn't produce a ko or blood get docked a point.

Lol. This sums up the thread. 

9/7/19 8:24 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 22181
Fuck off. They already did it with the 5 min rounds.
9/7/19 8:25 PM
12/13/15
Posts: 3051

From an 07?

Would you give the phone back to your husband please

9/7/19 8:28 PM
3/12/15
Posts: 2855
williepep -
The Lion King - 

Taking away headbutts, knees to downed opponents, padding the floors with mats so slams are less impactful, having cage or ropes to lean on, gloves and hand tape to make boxing more effective, Dana bitching at or even firing/not hiring people for wrestling and not engaging striking more (fitch, Shields, askren, etc.), the UFC literally paying fighters more to be strikers through post fight bonuses, etc. already does enough to negate wrestling.

But wrestlers still dominate because wrestling is by far the most competitive and elite level combat sport. 

Go watch boxing or kickboxing if you can’t accept that. 


"But wrestlers still dominate because wrestling is by far the most competitive and elite level combat sport. "


So you acknowledge it is a problem. How do we work to improve the problem ?

It is ok for wrestlers to dominate but it would be more exciting without the use of stalling tactics employed by many wrestlers.


I don’t think it’s a problem as long as the wrestler isn’t stalling with leg jumping (like Khabib in round 1 of the Conor fight) or hiding their face in the opponents crotch (like Hendricks against Lawler) 

Edited: 9/7/19 8:58 PM
7/2/07
Posts: 13881
<blockquote>Winston Wolf - <span id='userPost64759500' class='User-94712'><p>u cant wrestle u cant fight and dollars to donuts OP sucks at wrestling</p></span></blockquote><br /> Cleary this topic has upset you and I did not mean to cause that type of reaction.<br /><br /><br />This is a bit like the reaction from sport BJJ players at the sight of a pajama wrestling comment. <br /><br /><br />I may recall you posting in a thread I made about the wrestling hall of fame in Stillwater or maybe it was a thread you started. <br /><br />
9/7/19 8:54 PM
1/22/14
Posts: 885

get rid of the most dominant martial art on the planet because forum nerds don't like bad kickboxers who can't stop a takedown or get up afterwards?

 

yeah, buddy...

 

you guys should be thankful they got rid of knees on the ground, headbutts, and 12-6... without those, at least all the other guys have a chance...

9/7/19 8:58 PM
8/4/10
Posts: 34043

Short answer, no

Long answer, hell no you retarded fucking idiot

9/7/19 9:00 PM
3/6/07
Posts: 5393

He won by submission 

 

as in, Khabib did a move to make another grown ass man give up. 

 

Which part  should be banned ?

9/7/19 9:08 PM
7/2/07
Posts: 13883
shawarma - 

Your thread title and actual comment are not really connected. 

 

Of course wrestling shouldn't be banned. 

 

Introduction of rules to make people rush and take more risks would be welcome however. The same way people say 'watch boxing or kickboxing' you can say 'watch wrestling or BJJ' to those that don't mind a 14  minute positional grappling exchange in a 15 minute fight. 

 

People want to watch mixed martial arts not a single discipline. If you can't do damage or go for something in less than a minute you should be stood up. If you can't get a takedown against the cage after hugging a while you should be separated. 

A sense of urgency will help the sport and the fighters get more money. Nobody watches boxing for a hug fest and they separate them. 

 

It is illogical to not encourage action via strikes or sub attempts during a grappling exchange. You fail you try again. Not you fail but take your time maybe after 3.5 minutes you will pass guard and maybe attempt a strike or sub. 

 

Yellow cards were a good thing back in pride (albeit a dreadful penalty to a fighter). Perhaps a point deduction is good. 

 

The objective for a fan is to see a clear winner in a fight. That can only be enhanced by making grapple-heavy fighters go for GNP and subs. It isn't a pure striking sport nor a pure grappling sport. So some compromise is needed in the ruleset to avoid a scenario where frequent takedowns win a decision without much damage to a fighter. 


Your first statement demonstrates you are most likely the or one of the smartest people posting in this thread.


Good post and as you point out people respond to things that are exciting.
9/7/19 10:22 PM
7/25/08
Posts: 17389
Shugum - 

The current rules favor the wrestler. Pride did it right w yellow cards for stalling and soccer kicks to grounded opponents


Wrestling is the best art.

Add soccer kicks. Add knees to the head of a downed opponent. Allow 12-6 elbows. Allow headbutts.

If you think opening up the rules is going to make wrestlers LESS effective, you are going to be unpleasantly surprised.

You suddenly make the snapdown and front headlock game viable paths to victory for wrestlers
9/7/19 11:02 PM
5/13/13
Posts: 1884

OP, are you fucking retarded?

 

"Rule changes involving elbows, up kicks, and soccer kicks, knee on mat etc all favor wrestling as well as removed some of BJJ's weapons."

Yep, you're fucking retarded. Ground striking removes BJJ weapons? 

 

Go watch matbattle you faggot.