OtherGround Forums OG doc. AMA on COVID-19

22 days ago
2/4/09
Posts: 16353

Guess I need to eat some crow here.

 

never thought they would get a vaccine out and so fast for this.

 

I still believe there are other avenues to still explore and ACE2 will revolutionize some stuff just not COVID treatment 

22 days ago
10/23/05
Posts: 4595
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Guess I need to eat some crow here.

 

never thought they would get a vaccine out and so fast for this.

 

I still believe there are other avenues to still explore and ACE2 will revolutionize some stuff just not COVID treatment 

I had ventured 6-12 months back in March although I admit it was complete speculation on my part. Your ACE2 hypotheses will have major applications in ARDS me thinks, so you're not wrong!

22 days ago
10/30/10
Posts: 8997
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Guess I need to eat some crow here.

 

never thought they would get a vaccine out and so fast for this.

 

I still believe there are other avenues to still explore and ACE2 will revolutionize some stuff just not COVID treatment 

Is a sample of 44k enough to say it’s good?  Doesn’t it need to be peer reviewed as well? 

21 days ago
10/23/05
Posts: 4596
OutTapped - 
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Guess I need to eat some crow here.

 

never thought they would get a vaccine out and so fast for this.

 

I still believe there are other avenues to still explore and ACE2 will revolutionize some stuff just not COVID treatment 

Is a sample of 44k enough to say it’s good?  Doesn’t it need to be peer reviewed as well? 


It's still preliminary. You need more patients and more time (to assess safety, efficacy and median/mean duration of protection).

The data also needs to be vetted, peer-reviewed, and published somewhere. But it's very promising.

21 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 66903
Wanted to get your opinion on best practices for the holidays. My wife and I are going to go to my parents house for dinner, where mask-wearing will be impossible, at least for the duration of dinner itself. My parents are both relatively vulnerable, so while I have been playing it pretty safe up until now, I was planning on playing it extra safe for the 2 weeks before Thanksgiving. In particular:

- Avoiding grocery shopping and any other indoor activity
- Wearing an N95 outside the apartment as much as possible

Are there any other precautions you would take? If we follow these precautions, how important do you think it is that we get tested before we go?
21 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 28261
NoNeed4aScreenName - 

Guess I need to eat some crow here.

 

never thought they would get a vaccine out and so fast for this.

 

I still believe there are other avenues to still explore and ACE2 will revolutionize some stuff just not COVID treatment 


So does the Trump administration get credit for getting out there with different companies to fast track a vaccine.

Or will Biden take the credit
20 days ago
10/23/05
Posts: 4601
Tomato Can - Wanted to get your opinion on best practices for the holidays. My wife and I are going to go to my parents house for dinner, where mask-wearing will be impossible, at least for the duration of dinner itself. My parents are both relatively vulnerable, so while I have been playing it pretty safe up until now, I was planning on playing it extra safe for the 2 weeks before Thanksgiving. In particular:

- Avoiding grocery shopping and any other indoor activity
- Wearing an N95 outside the apartment as much as possible

Are there any other precautions you would take? If we follow these precautions, how important do you think it is that we get tested before we go?

I'm in the same situation. My parents are both vulnerable. And I'm swimming in positive cases. But at some point, being close to your loved ones is important.

If your parents are vulnerable, then do your best to avoid getting it 2 weeks before (probably 10 days are enough). N95 is always a good idea.

Regarding tests, you can always do it, just remember that you might be positive and not be a risk to your parents (if you've had it up to 6 weeks before).

Can you guys open the windows during dinner while you're there (or even outside)? Wash hands often. Put a mask on when you're not eating. Try being at least 6 feet away during dinner.

It's all about minimizing rather than suppressing risk.

20 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 66911
I think we can do most of that stuff (windows open, masks when not eating) although distancing during dinner might be a challenge since they don't exactly have a huge dining room in their NYC apartment. I am doing 110% to stay clean for the next 2 weeks but I'm leaning against the test, just because the lines are around the block right now and I feel like going into the clinic would itself be the most dangerous thing I do all week.

Thanks a ton, the OG doesn't deserve you!
19 days ago
10/23/05
Posts: 4606
Tomato Can - I think we can do most of that stuff (windows open, masks when not eating) although distancing during dinner might be a challenge since they don't exactly have a huge dining room in their NYC apartment. I am doing 110% to stay clean for the next 2 weeks but I'm leaning against the test, just because the lines are around the block right now and I feel like going into the clinic would itself be the most dangerous thing I do all week.

Thanks a ton, the OG doesn't deserve you!

Welcome dude. And I agree 100% regarding testing.

19 days ago
10/23/05
Posts: 4607

Just to illustrate how clueless authorities can be these days.

I've been asked to help out a colleague in a remote region of the country.

They're asking for 2 weeks quarantine once I get there. A little weird considering they're in dire straits. But fine, I can use the time to do research and I'm being paid while I quarantine.

Here's the twist. They're asking for a negative test on day 10 of my quarantine. I explain to them that the test is useless. Regardless if I'm positive or negative, I'm not a risk for transmission because of the 14 day quarantine. They're still adamant they want a negative test. So I told them to find someone else.

19 days ago
5/5/07
Posts: 12010
mataleo1 -

Just to illustrate how clueless authorities can be these days.

I've been asked to help out a colleague in a remote region of the country.

They're asking for 2 weeks quarantine once I get there. A little weird considering they're in dire straits. But fine, I can use the time to do research and I'm being paid while I quarantine.

Here's the twist. They're asking for a negative test on day 10 of my quarantine. I explain to them that the test is useless. Regardless if I'm positive or negative, I'm not a risk for transmission because of the 14 day quarantine. They're still adamant they want a negative test. So I told them to find someone else.

Yea nobody knows what the fuck they doing with these quaratine rules.

They make no sense to me.    Who is designing them.  I should be able to do covid test 6 days out and if negative allow to work.  

Canada with their 14 day rule defies logic and science imo.   I'm assuming this is in Canada lol

19 days ago
10/23/05
Posts: 4608
Rahjai MD - 
mataleo1 -

Just to illustrate how clueless authorities can be these days.

I've been asked to help out a colleague in a remote region of the country.

They're asking for 2 weeks quarantine once I get there. A little weird considering they're in dire straits. But fine, I can use the time to do research and I'm being paid while I quarantine.

Here's the twist. They're asking for a negative test on day 10 of my quarantine. I explain to them that the test is useless. Regardless if I'm positive or negative, I'm not a risk for transmission because of the 14 day quarantine. They're still adamant they want a negative test. So I told them to find someone else.

Yea nobody knows what the fuck they doing with these quaratine rules.

They make no sense to me.    Who is designing them.  I should be able to do covid test 6 days out and if negative allow to work.  

Canada with their 14 day rule defies logic and science imo.   I'm assuming this is in Canada lol


I do somewhat understand the quarantine rule for health care workers. But a negative test at day 5-7 with enforced PPE (N95 at all times until day 14) makes a lot more sense.

You might have heard of the doc in NB who essentially infected several patients (including a couple who died). He went to Quebec and didn't mention it to anyone.

Honestly, the docs in public health are not the cleverest minds we have.

11 days ago
2/4/09
Posts: 16662

Mataleo, any word on the publication if that paper?

11 days ago
12/2/05
Posts: 14844

Mataleo a quick question.  Might be a touch ouside your expertise though.  Me and my family went through Covid last month.  Our state health dept. has told us we should have antibodies for 90 days.  How is a vaccine different?  Why does the vaccine antibodies last longer??

11 days ago
10/23/05
Posts: 4664
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Mataleo, any word on the publication if that paper?

Rejected after lengthy review. Which tells me something. Statistical flaw? I'll report back when it gets accepted. I still haven't had access to the data.

Edited: 11 days ago
10/23/05
Posts: 4665
EasyTapper - 

Mataleo a quick question.  Might be a touch ouside your expertise though.  Me and my family went through Covid last month.  Our state health dept. has told us we should have antibodies for 90 days.  How is a vaccine different?  Why does the vaccine antibodies last longer??


This was answered at some point.

Antibodies are detected for about 3-6 months.

However, immunity is based on many things, including cellular immunity (which is different from "humoral" immunity aka antibodies).

Regardless, millions have already been infected, yet there are very few cases of reinfection. This speaks volumes statistically, and suggests that immunity lasts MUCH longer (way more than 90 days).

And, unsurprisingly, data is suggesting the same, check out the NYT article:

As for vaccines, it is possible that the immune response it produces is larger in magnitude than natural infection (doubtful but possible). Even if this isn't true, a vaccine could still last several months. And if you get a second injection, this could mean years.
Edited: 11 days ago
2/4/09
Posts: 16663
mataleo1 -
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Mataleo, any word on the publication if that paper?

Rejected after lengthy review. Which tells me something. Statistical flaw? I'll report back when it gets accepted. I still haven't had access to the data.

Thanks. There has been a couple papers put out in Nov and wasn't sure if any of them were from your group. 
 

haven't had a chance to read them yet either. 
 

pretty shitty it got rejected. Hopefully not behind the scenes politics

11 days ago
10/23/05
Posts: 4666
NoNeed4aScreenName - 
mataleo1 -
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Mataleo, any word on the publication if that paper?

Rejected after lengthy review. Which tells me something. Statistical flaw? I'll report back when it gets accepted. I still haven't had access to the data.

Thanks. There has been a couple papers put out in Nov and wasn't sure if any of them were from your group. 
 

haven't had a chance to read them yet either. 
 

pretty shitty it got rejected. Hopefully not behind the scenes politics


If politics were involved, they would have told me / bitched about the injustice. That they haven't done so, tells me something was flawed with the data.

11 days ago
10/23/05
Posts: 4667

As an aside, I've been visiting a few ICUs in the Netherlands. They seem to believe the worse of the second wave is now passed. ICU cases in Paris are also decreasing.

This is positive news.

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 12590

Great to see you back mateleo1 !

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 1006
mataleo1 - 

Just to illustrate how clueless authorities can be these days.

I've been asked to help out a colleague in a remote region of the country.

They're asking for 2 weeks quarantine once I get there. A little weird considering they're in dire straits. But fine, I can use the time to do research and I'm being paid while I quarantine.

Here's the twist. They're asking for a negative test on day 10 of my quarantine. I explain to them that the test is useless. Regardless if I'm positive or negative, I'm not a risk for transmission because of the 14 day quarantine. They're still adamant they want a negative test. So I told them to find someone else.


Tried to see if you explained it earlier but did not find it. When you say the "test is useless", why is that? I see so much conflicting information on whether the PCR test or any covid test is unreliable, useless, etc. but I can't find a straight answer on why.
Edited: 11 days ago
10/23/05
Posts: 4668
SpeedKing9 - 
mataleo1 - Just to illustrate how clueless authorities can be these days.

I've been asked to help out a colleague in a remote region of the country.

They're asking for 2 weeks quarantine once I get there. A little weird considering they're in dire straits. But fine, I can use the time to do research and I'm being paid while I quarantine.

Here's the twist. They're asking for a negative test on day 10 of my quarantine. I explain to them that the test is useless. Regardless if I'm positive or negative, I'm not a risk for transmission because of the 14 day quarantine. They're still adamant they want a negative test. So I told them to find someone else.

Tried to see if you explained it earlier but did not find it. When you say the "test is useless", why is that? I see so much conflicting information on whether the PCR test or any covid test is unreliable, useless, etc. but I can't find a straight answer on why.

Lots of ongoing debate within the microbiology community regarding PCR. Am happy to go in details but there are plenty of lab guys who can do it better than me. I do know that the rapid tests have been disappointing so far (poor sensitivity and specificity)

As for the example above, ANYONE who quarantines 2 weeks is safe from spreading COVID.

So, the test is useless, in this particular case, because either:
A) My test on day 10 is positive, meaning I'm a true positive (I had COVID in the last 6 weeks) or I'm a false positive (from a substandard test). Regardless I'm not contagious.

B) My test on day 10 is negative, which means I'm not contagious.

When the result of a test changes nothing in the management or outcome, this means it's useless.
11 days ago
10/23/05
Posts: 4669
prof - 
Great to see you back mateleo1 !


cheers buddy

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 53249

mateo:

I've noticed a trend among health officials to try and push the narrative that those who have recovered from covid only had three months immunity.  However other sources like Dr. Campbell state long term immunity is likely from the memory T cells.  Those that recovered from sars-1 still have immunity 17 year later today.  And that they also have cross immunity to sars-2 because both are similiar in structure.

Do you think they are trying to spin this narrative to get everyone to take the vaccine regardless of whether or not they were previously infected?  And do you think this is to avoid people passing on the vaccine because they *think* they had it already when in fact they never got tested?

11 days ago
2/4/09
Posts: 16675
mataleo1 -
NoNeed4aScreenName - 
mataleo1 -
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Mataleo, any word on the publication if that paper?

Rejected after lengthy review. Which tells me something. Statistical flaw? I'll report back when it gets accepted. I still haven't had access to the data.

Thanks. There has been a couple papers put out in Nov and wasn't sure if any of them were from your group. 
 

haven't had a chance to read them yet either. 
 

pretty shitty it got rejected. Hopefully not behind the scenes politics


If politics were involved, they would have told me / bitched about the injustice. That they haven't done so, tells me something was flawed with the data.

That sucks then. Hopefully the mistake only improves their analysis and doesnt take away from it. 

 

Nothing like finding out your error made the data look worse than what ot truly is