What if ... The disappearance of the angry atheists

10/31/19 2:04 PM
3/18/02
Posts: 89212

because its fake

10/31/19 3:45 PM
4/13/12
Posts: 30284
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
TheHawker -

From the mid to late 2000s on the internet in general and this forum in particular, there was a sizable contingent of "fuck religion, flying spaghetti monster, i believe in science bro" types who would dominate any talk of religion, evolution, etc.  It seems that's all but disappeared and those people have morphed into alt right, anti-SJW warriors who've found common cause, or at least a cold peace, with right wing religionists to take on the wacko left.

 

I think it comes down to the fact that we (atheists) won. When I was growing up, it was hard to find someone around me who was NOT religious.  Now it's hard to find any one that is.

 

Fighting against religion is on par with fighting people who think the earth is flat or that dinosaurs never existed.  You can do it for jokes, but the fight has been won.

Behold, the gnostic athiest.

I dont know about me being 'gnostic'.  That's true to some extent I suppose... in the same way you 'know' that there isn't an invisible elephant behind you right now or an imperceivably small leprechaun in your ass. i.e. you dont really know but you know.

Its a weird universe we live in.  Anything is possible.

Well if being agnostic means that you believe that there being a God is as likely as there being a leprechaun up your ass then I think you would find 99.9999% of atheists would be fine identifying as 'agnostic'.

i disagree.  many athiests are gnostic and are as convinced that there is no god as devout christians are that jesus is their savior.  an agnostic athiest believes nothing.

because thats not what agnostic means. false equivalency. there are plenty of agnostic theists in the world as evidence.

atheism has to do with belief

agnosticism pertains to claims about knowledge ( epistemology )

babies are agnostic atheists. every single one of them. because the do not believe in or subscribe to the idea of a god. therefore, they are without belief in a theology or divinity. a- ( literay means "nothing" or "without" ) theism ( belief in god ). 

yet the baby does not explicitly reject the idea of a god. 

catholics understood this dilemma quite well hence the intro of the concept of purgatory.

and no, babies are not inherently born with information about jesus. congenital religious belief structures is not a thing.

i hope this helps to clarify for some of the confused posters.

 

thanks.  i misspoke there, but am pretty sure that's what i said earlier in the thread.

10/31/19 4:11 PM
6/14/12
Posts: 3791
EFM -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
TheHawker -

From the mid to late 2000s on the internet in general and this forum in particular, there was a sizable contingent of "fuck religion, flying spaghetti monster, i believe in science bro" types who would dominate any talk of religion, evolution, etc.  It seems that's all but disappeared and those people have morphed into alt right, anti-SJW warriors who've found common cause, or at least a cold peace, with right wing religionists to take on the wacko left.

 

I think it comes down to the fact that we (atheists) won. When I was growing up, it was hard to find someone around me who was NOT religious.  Now it's hard to find any one that is.

 

Fighting against religion is on par with fighting people who think the earth is flat or that dinosaurs never existed.  You can do it for jokes, but the fight has been won.

Behold, the gnostic athiest.

I dont know about me being 'gnostic'.  That's true to some extent I suppose... in the same way you 'know' that there isn't an invisible elephant behind you right now or an imperceivably small leprechaun in your ass. i.e. you dont really know but you know.

Its a weird universe we live in.  Anything is possible.

Well if being agnostic means that you believe that there being a God is as likely as there being a leprechaun up your ass then I think you would find 99.9999% of atheists would be fine identifying as 'agnostic'.

i disagree.  many athiests are gnostic and are as convinced that there is no god as devout christians are that jesus is their savior.  an agnostic athiest believes nothing.

because thats not what agnostic means. false equivalency. there are plenty of agnostic theists in the world as evidence.

atheism has to do with belief

agnosticism pertains to claims about knowledge ( epistemology )

babies are agnostic atheists. every single one of them. because the do not believe in or subscribe to the idea of a god. therefore, they are without belief in a theology or divinity. a- ( literay means "nothing" or "without" ) theism ( belief in god ). 

yet the baby does not explicitly reject the idea of a god. 

catholics understood this dilemma quite well hence the intro of the concept of purgatory.

and no, babies are not inherently born with information about jesus. congenital religious belief structures is not a thing.

i hope this helps to clarify for some of the confused posters.

 

thanks.  i misspoke there, but am pretty sure that's what i said earlier in the thread.

no dude you had the right idea.

i was addressing jspeed.

the explicit atheist BELIEVES there is no good.

the agnostic atheist ( me ) is simply without belief.  no burden of proof necessary as you cant prove a negative.

atheists claiming that they know there is no god is as arrogant, loathsome, and pretentious as the assholes who claim they know where we go when we die and then go on to describe it like they ve been there.

belief should be based on evidence and logic while minimalizing assumptions as much as possible. 

if you wish to believe in an invisible sky superman, great, just keep it to yourself.

10/31/19 5:05 PM
4/13/12
Posts: 30286
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
TheHawker -

From the mid to late 2000s on the internet in general and this forum in particular, there was a sizable contingent of "fuck religion, flying spaghetti monster, i believe in science bro" types who would dominate any talk of religion, evolution, etc.  It seems that's all but disappeared and those people have morphed into alt right, anti-SJW warriors who've found common cause, or at least a cold peace, with right wing religionists to take on the wacko left.

 

I think it comes down to the fact that we (atheists) won. When I was growing up, it was hard to find someone around me who was NOT religious.  Now it's hard to find any one that is.

 

Fighting against religion is on par with fighting people who think the earth is flat or that dinosaurs never existed.  You can do it for jokes, but the fight has been won.

Behold, the gnostic athiest.

I dont know about me being 'gnostic'.  That's true to some extent I suppose... in the same way you 'know' that there isn't an invisible elephant behind you right now or an imperceivably small leprechaun in your ass. i.e. you dont really know but you know.

Its a weird universe we live in.  Anything is possible.

Well if being agnostic means that you believe that there being a God is as likely as there being a leprechaun up your ass then I think you would find 99.9999% of atheists would be fine identifying as 'agnostic'.

i disagree.  many athiests are gnostic and are as convinced that there is no god as devout christians are that jesus is their savior.  an agnostic athiest believes nothing.

because thats not what agnostic means. false equivalency. there are plenty of agnostic theists in the world as evidence.

atheism has to do with belief

agnosticism pertains to claims about knowledge ( epistemology )

babies are agnostic atheists. every single one of them. because the do not believe in or subscribe to the idea of a god. therefore, they are without belief in a theology or divinity. a- ( literay means "nothing" or "without" ) theism ( belief in god ). 

yet the baby does not explicitly reject the idea of a god. 

catholics understood this dilemma quite well hence the intro of the concept of purgatory.

and no, babies are not inherently born with information about jesus. congenital religious belief structures is not a thing.

i hope this helps to clarify for some of the confused posters.

 

thanks.  i misspoke there, but am pretty sure that's what i said earlier in the thread.

no dude you had the right idea.

i was addressing jspeed.

the explicit atheist BELIEVES there is no good.

the agnostic atheist ( me ) is simply without belief.  no burden of proof necessary as you cant prove a negative.

atheists claiming that they know there is no god is as arrogant, loathsome, and pretentious as the assholes who claim they know where we go when we die and then go on to describe it like they ve been there.

belief should be based on evidence and logic while minimalizing assumptions as much as possible. 

if you wish to believe in an invisible sky superman, great, just keep it to yourself.

agreed.

10/31/19 5:29 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 21075

Christians like this make me angry all over again.

 

10/31/19 5:37 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 21076

I also get angry at theists like this and the milions who follow his kind.

 

10/31/19 6:04 PM
6/14/12
Posts: 3792
Lofland -

I also get angry at theists like this and the milions who follow his kind.

 

these joel osteen types are the absolute fucking worst. what they do is criminal ; defrauding people of money to own a fleet of rolls royces and private jets. fucking scum fucks.

also, lol at "minimalizing". christ im a retard.

Edited: 10/31/19 6:46 PM
8/2/19
Posts: 510
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
TheHawker -

From the mid to late 2000s on the internet in general and this forum in particular, there was a sizable contingent of "fuck religion, flying spaghetti monster, i believe in science bro" types who would dominate any talk of religion, evolution, etc.  It seems that's all but disappeared and those people have morphed into alt right, anti-SJW warriors who've found common cause, or at least a cold peace, with right wing religionists to take on the wacko left.

 

I think it comes down to the fact that we (atheists) won. When I was growing up, it was hard to find someone around me who was NOT religious.  Now it's hard to find any one that is.

 

Fighting against religion is on par with fighting people who think the earth is flat or that dinosaurs never existed.  You can do it for jokes, but the fight has been won.

Behold, the gnostic athiest.

I dont know about me being 'gnostic'.  That's true to some extent I suppose... in the same way you 'know' that there isn't an invisible elephant behind you right now or an imperceivably small leprechaun in your ass. i.e. you dont really know but you know.

Its a weird universe we live in.  Anything is possible.

Well if being agnostic means that you believe that there being a God is as likely as there being a leprechaun up your ass then I think you would find 99.9999% of atheists would be fine identifying as 'agnostic'.

i disagree.  many athiests are gnostic and are as convinced that there is no god as devout christians are that jesus is their savior.  an agnostic athiest believes nothing.

because thats not what agnostic means. false equivalency. there are plenty of agnostic theists in the world as evidence.

atheism has to do with belief

agnosticism pertains to claims about knowledge ( epistemology )

babies are agnostic atheists. every single one of them. because the do not believe in or subscribe to the idea of a god. therefore, they are without belief in a theology or divinity. a- ( literay means "nothing" or "without" ) theism ( belief in god ). 

yet the baby does not explicitly reject the idea of a god. 

catholics understood this dilemma quite well hence the intro of the concept of purgatory.

and no, babies are not inherently born with information about jesus. congenital religious belief structures is not a thing.

i hope this helps to clarify for some of the confused posters.

 

thanks.  i misspoke there, but am pretty sure that's what i said earlier in the thread.

no dude you had the right idea.

i was addressing jspeed.

the explicit atheist BELIEVES there is no good.

the agnostic atheist ( me ) is simply without belief.  no burden of proof necessary as you cant prove a negative.

atheists claiming that they know there is no god is as arrogant, loathsome, and pretentious as the assholes who claim they know where we go when we die and then go on to describe it like they ve been there.

belief should be based on evidence and logic while minimalizing assumptions as much as possible. 

if you wish to believe in an invisible sky superman, great, just keep it to yourself.

I didn't realize you were addressing me.  I'll say to you what I said to him:

 

Do you believe that there is no invisible leprechaun dancing up your ass right now? Or do you not know?

 

If you believe that there is no invisible leprechaun dancing up your ass right now, then you are the equivalent of an gnostic atheist not believing in there being a god.

If you simply claim to 'not know' - then you should understand how absurd you sound:  You don't know whether or not theres an invisible leprechaun up your ass?  How can you be taken seriously?

 

[edited to change 'agnostic' to 'gnostic' in the sentence, "then you are the equivalent of an gnostic atheist not believing in there being a god." ]

10/31/19 6:09 PM
8/2/19
Posts: 511

EFM, feel free to respond to this as well ^ You must've missed it the first time ;)

10/31/19 7:10 PM
1/3/18
Posts: 5789
Looney Ronulan Paultard -
Im with the banned -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -

no christian has ever committed suicide. 

except jesus.

Yea, if you believe the story, he just sacrificed himself to himself for about 36-48 hours, not 3 days as the claim goes. 

Why 36-48 hrs? 

Supposedly, he was crucified between noon and 3pm on a Friday. Doing the simple math, if he supposedly woke up from his nap on Sunday morning, saying 36-48 hours is being generous. Otherwise, they should be celebrating on easter Monday. 

10/31/19 7:19 PM
6/14/12
Posts: 3793
jspeed -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
TheHawker -

From the mid to late 2000s on the internet in general and this forum in particular, there was a sizable contingent of "fuck religion, flying spaghetti monster, i believe in science bro" types who would dominate any talk of religion, evolution, etc.  It seems that's all but disappeared and those people have morphed into alt right, anti-SJW warriors who've found common cause, or at least a cold peace, with right wing religionists to take on the wacko left.

 

I think it comes down to the fact that we (atheists) won. When I was growing up, it was hard to find someone around me who was NOT religious.  Now it's hard to find any one that is.

 

Fighting against religion is on par with fighting people who think the earth is flat or that dinosaurs never existed.  You can do it for jokes, but the fight has been won.

Behold, the gnostic athiest.

I dont know about me being 'gnostic'.  That's true to some extent I suppose... in the same way you 'know' that there isn't an invisible elephant behind you right now or an imperceivably small leprechaun in your ass. i.e. you dont really know but you know.

Its a weird universe we live in.  Anything is possible.

Well if being agnostic means that you believe that there being a God is as likely as there being a leprechaun up your ass then I think you would find 99.9999% of atheists would be fine identifying as 'agnostic'.

i disagree.  many athiests are gnostic and are as convinced that there is no god as devout christians are that jesus is their savior.  an agnostic athiest believes nothing.

because thats not what agnostic means. false equivalency. there are plenty of agnostic theists in the world as evidence.

atheism has to do with belief

agnosticism pertains to claims about knowledge ( epistemology )

babies are agnostic atheists. every single one of them. because the do not believe in or subscribe to the idea of a god. therefore, they are without belief in a theology or divinity. a- ( literay means "nothing" or "without" ) theism ( belief in god ). 

yet the baby does not explicitly reject the idea of a god. 

catholics understood this dilemma quite well hence the intro of the concept of purgatory.

and no, babies are not inherently born with information about jesus. congenital religious belief structures is not a thing.

i hope this helps to clarify for some of the confused posters.

 

thanks.  i misspoke there, but am pretty sure that's what i said earlier in the thread.

no dude you had the right idea.

i was addressing jspeed.

the explicit atheist BELIEVES there is no good.

the agnostic atheist ( me ) is simply without belief.  no burden of proof necessary as you cant prove a negative.

atheists claiming that they know there is no god is as arrogant, loathsome, and pretentious as the assholes who claim they know where we go when we die and then go on to describe it like they ve been there.

belief should be based on evidence and logic while minimalizing assumptions as much as possible. 

if you wish to believe in an invisible sky superman, great, just keep it to yourself.

I didn't realize you were addressing me.  I'll say to you what I said to him:

 

Do you believe that there is no invisible leprechaun dancing up your ass right now? Or do you not know?

 

If you believe that there is no invisible leprechaun dancing up your ass right now, then you are the equivalent of an gnostic atheist not believing in there being a god.

If you simply claim to 'not know' - then you should understand how absurd you sound:  You don't know whether or not theres an invisible leprechaun up your ass?  How can you be taken seriously?

 

[edited to change 'agnostic' to 'gnostic' in the sentence, "then you are the equivalent of an gnostic atheist not believing in there being a god." ]

im without belief. 

theres a crucial distinction that you re missing.

10/31/19 7:34 PM
8/2/19
Posts: 512
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
jspeed -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
TheHawker -

From the mid to late 2000s on the internet in general and this forum in particular, there was a sizable contingent of "fuck religion, flying spaghetti monster, i believe in science bro" types who would dominate any talk of religion, evolution, etc.  It seems that's all but disappeared and those people have morphed into alt right, anti-SJW warriors who've found common cause, or at least a cold peace, with right wing religionists to take on the wacko left.

 

I think it comes down to the fact that we (atheists) won. When I was growing up, it was hard to find someone around me who was NOT religious.  Now it's hard to find any one that is.

 

Fighting against religion is on par with fighting people who think the earth is flat or that dinosaurs never existed.  You can do it for jokes, but the fight has been won.

Behold, the gnostic athiest.

I dont know about me being 'gnostic'.  That's true to some extent I suppose... in the same way you 'know' that there isn't an invisible elephant behind you right now or an imperceivably small leprechaun in your ass. i.e. you dont really know but you know.

Its a weird universe we live in.  Anything is possible.

Well if being agnostic means that you believe that there being a God is as likely as there being a leprechaun up your ass then I think you would find 99.9999% of atheists would be fine identifying as 'agnostic'.

i disagree.  many athiests are gnostic and are as convinced that there is no god as devout christians are that jesus is their savior.  an agnostic athiest believes nothing.

because thats not what agnostic means. false equivalency. there are plenty of agnostic theists in the world as evidence.

atheism has to do with belief

agnosticism pertains to claims about knowledge ( epistemology )

babies are agnostic atheists. every single one of them. because the do not believe in or subscribe to the idea of a god. therefore, they are without belief in a theology or divinity. a- ( literay means "nothing" or "without" ) theism ( belief in god ). 

yet the baby does not explicitly reject the idea of a god. 

catholics understood this dilemma quite well hence the intro of the concept of purgatory.

and no, babies are not inherently born with information about jesus. congenital religious belief structures is not a thing.

i hope this helps to clarify for some of the confused posters.

 

thanks.  i misspoke there, but am pretty sure that's what i said earlier in the thread.

no dude you had the right idea.

i was addressing jspeed.

the explicit atheist BELIEVES there is no good.

the agnostic atheist ( me ) is simply without belief.  no burden of proof necessary as you cant prove a negative.

atheists claiming that they know there is no god is as arrogant, loathsome, and pretentious as the assholes who claim they know where we go when we die and then go on to describe it like they ve been there.

belief should be based on evidence and logic while minimalizing assumptions as much as possible. 

if you wish to believe in an invisible sky superman, great, just keep it to yourself.

I didn't realize you were addressing me.  I'll say to you what I said to him:

 

Do you believe that there is no invisible leprechaun dancing up your ass right now? Or do you not know?

 

If you believe that there is no invisible leprechaun dancing up your ass right now, then you are the equivalent of an gnostic atheist not believing in there being a god.

If you simply claim to 'not know' - then you should understand how absurd you sound:  You don't know whether or not theres an invisible leprechaun up your ass?  How can you be taken seriously?

 

[edited to change 'agnostic' to 'gnostic' in the sentence, "then you are the equivalent of an gnostic atheist not believing in there being a god." ]

im without belief. 

theres a crucial distinction that you re missing.

I'm not missing anything.  I'm pointing out the absurdity of your philosophical stance: Based on your definitions you are forced to admit that there might be an invisible leprechaun up your ass.

 

The fact that that doesn't get you to reconsider whether or not you're on the right side of the fence is troubling.

Edited: 10/31/19 8:07 PM
6/20/13
Posts: 10601
Im with the banned -
Looney Ronulan Paultard -
Im with the banned -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -

no christian has ever committed suicide. 

except jesus.

Yea, if you believe the story, he just sacrificed himself to himself for about 36-48 hours, not 3 days as the claim goes. 

Why 36-48 hrs? 

Supposedly, he was crucified between noon and 3pm on a Friday. Doing the simple math, if he supposedly woke up from his nap on Sunday morning, saying 36-48 hours is being generous. Otherwise, they should be celebrating on easter Monday. 

That was due to Catholics creating new Sabbaths and traditions. Yeshua (Jesus) was not born on Christmas and not killed on Friday according to all accounts in the Bible and in Josephus’ writings.

 

These dates were created after his death by Catholics using the Roman calendar instead of the Jewish calendar that Jesus used. All the Good Friday and Christmas stuff was made up after his death.

The Jews of Jesus’ time used a lunar calendar, not a Gregorian calendar just as they still do today.

11/1/19 7:31 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 21077

Here are some of the nation's most prominent theists not keeping their beliefs to themselves.

Edited: 11/1/19 7:50 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 21078

The hostility towards people claiming to know that some propositions are false is strange. If you take knowledge as knowing something as well as anyone can, assuming you're not completely insane or tripping on drugs, then there is an infinite number of propositions I can state that I am totally confident are false. This is a level of confidence such that I arrange my life around the conclusion that these things are false.

For instance, I hear a train in the distance right now. I know that I am in my house and not actually lying on the train tracks. If there's even a 1% chance I am wrong about this, I am in some danger, and moving somewhere else should be the most important thing in my life. But I am confident enough that I am not doing anything at all to move. 

Restating El_Geronimo_de_Gato's sentence:

"people claiming that they know there is no [leprechaun in their ass/Cthulhu/Flying Spaghetti Monster] is as arrogant, loathsome, and pretentious as the assholes who claim they know where we go when we die and then go on to describe it like they ve been there."

 

11/1/19 9:03 AM
6/14/12
Posts: 3794
jspeed -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
jspeed -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
TheHawker -

From the mid to late 2000s on the internet in general and this forum in particular, there was a sizable contingent of "fuck religion, flying spaghetti monster, i believe in science bro" types who would dominate any talk of religion, evolution, etc.  It seems that's all but disappeared and those people have morphed into alt right, anti-SJW warriors who've found common cause, or at least a cold peace, with right wing religionists to take on the wacko left.

 

I think it comes down to the fact that we (atheists) won. When I was growing up, it was hard to find someone around me who was NOT religious.  Now it's hard to find any one that is.

 

Fighting against religion is on par with fighting people who think the earth is flat or that dinosaurs never existed.  You can do it for jokes, but the fight has been won.

Behold, the gnostic athiest.

I dont know about me being 'gnostic'.  That's true to some extent I suppose... in the same way you 'know' that there isn't an invisible elephant behind you right now or an imperceivably small leprechaun in your ass. i.e. you dont really know but you know.

Its a weird universe we live in.  Anything is possible.

Well if being agnostic means that you believe that there being a God is as likely as there being a leprechaun up your ass then I think you would find 99.9999% of atheists would be fine identifying as 'agnostic'.

i disagree.  many athiests are gnostic and are as convinced that there is no god as devout christians are that jesus is their savior.  an agnostic athiest believes nothing.

because thats not what agnostic means. false equivalency. there are plenty of agnostic theists in the world as evidence.

atheism has to do with belief

agnosticism pertains to claims about knowledge ( epistemology )

babies are agnostic atheists. every single one of them. because the do not believe in or subscribe to the idea of a god. therefore, they are without belief in a theology or divinity. a- ( literay means "nothing" or "without" ) theism ( belief in god ). 

yet the baby does not explicitly reject the idea of a god. 

catholics understood this dilemma quite well hence the intro of the concept of purgatory.

and no, babies are not inherently born with information about jesus. congenital religious belief structures is not a thing.

i hope this helps to clarify for some of the confused posters.

 

thanks.  i misspoke there, but am pretty sure that's what i said earlier in the thread.

no dude you had the right idea.

i was addressing jspeed.

the explicit atheist BELIEVES there is no good.

the agnostic atheist ( me ) is simply without belief.  no burden of proof necessary as you cant prove a negative.

atheists claiming that they know there is no god is as arrogant, loathsome, and pretentious as the assholes who claim they know where we go when we die and then go on to describe it like they ve been there.

belief should be based on evidence and logic while minimalizing assumptions as much as possible. 

if you wish to believe in an invisible sky superman, great, just keep it to yourself.

I didn't realize you were addressing me.  I'll say to you what I said to him:

 

Do you believe that there is no invisible leprechaun dancing up your ass right now? Or do you not know?

 

If you believe that there is no invisible leprechaun dancing up your ass right now, then you are the equivalent of an gnostic atheist not believing in there being a god.

If you simply claim to 'not know' - then you should understand how absurd you sound:  You don't know whether or not theres an invisible leprechaun up your ass?  How can you be taken seriously?

 

[edited to change 'agnostic' to 'gnostic' in the sentence, "then you are the equivalent of an gnostic atheist not believing in there being a god." ]

im without belief. 

theres a crucial distinction that you re missing.

I'm not missing anything.  I'm pointing out the absurdity of your philosophical stance: Based on your definitions you are forced to admit that there might be an invisible leprechaun up your ass.

 

The fact that that doesn't get you to reconsider whether or not you're on the right side of the fence is troubling.

not at all. i dont believe there is a magic leprechaun up my ass. im not forced to admit any such thing. you re straw manning and revealing your ignorance towards my position in the process. by the way, those arent my definitions. those are the working definitions that have been in play for years and years. the fact that its almost 2020 and people still dont understand the basic  and simple definition of atheist / agnostic is hilarious.

 i dont believe the propositions of the bible are true.

i dont believe an omnibenevolent being casts souls into hell because its a blatant contradiction.

i explicitly reject the claims of christianity. i believe that all of the abrahamic religions are fallible / spurious. 

is there a god ? i dont know. the christian / islamic / judaeo god  is rubbish. i dont rule out the possibility that we re not living in a computer simulation. i dont claim to know what happens when we die. to do so without evidence is foolhardy and egotistical at a scale that is frightening. but im beyond confident the bible is utter horseshit and toxic.

 

but your claim that im forced to believe in a leprachaun is beyond fucking absurd and shows an enormous lack of understanding on your part. just like im not forced to believe in chakras. 

prove there is a leprachaun and ill believe. until then...

 

Edited: 11/1/19 9:10 AM
6/14/12
Posts: 3795
Lofland -

The hostility towards people claiming to know that some propositions are false is strange. If you take knowledge as knowing something as well as anyone can, assuming you're not completely insane or tripping on drugs, then there is an infinite number of propositions I can state that I am totally confident are false. This is a level of confidence such that I arrange my life around the conclusion that these things are false.

For instance, I hear a train in the distance right now. I know that I am in my house and not actually lying on the train tracks. If there's even a 1% chance I am wrong about this, I am in some danger, and moving somewhere else should be the most important thing in my life. But I am confident enough that I am not doing anything at all to move. 

Restating El_Geronimo_de_Gato's sentence:

"people claiming that they know there is no [leprechaun in their ass/Cthulhu/Flying Spaghetti Monster] is as arrogant, loathsome, and pretentious as the assholes who claim they know where we go when we die and then go on to describe it like they ve been there."

 

im not hostile towards people claiming to know that some propositions are false. 

 

11/1/19 9:22 AM
3/18/02
Posts: 89237

I find all of the debate over terminology over what people do or dont believe is really weird.  

people who dont believe that there is a man in the sky who hates africa dont really care about the topic at all, what theyre called, and what people think they believe.  

Its as constructive as debating the best way to mix asphalt.  

people who dont believe dont care

11/1/19 4:36 PM
8/2/19
Posts: 513
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
jspeed -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
jspeed -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
El_Geronimo_de_Gato -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
EFM -
jspeed -
TheHawker -

From the mid to late 2000s on the internet in general and this forum in particular, there was a sizable contingent of "fuck religion, flying spaghetti monster, i believe in science bro" types who would dominate any talk of religion, evolution, etc.  It seems that's all but disappeared and those people have morphed into alt right, anti-SJW warriors who've found common cause, or at least a cold peace, with right wing religionists to take on the wacko left.

 

I think it comes down to the fact that we (atheists) won. When I was growing up, it was hard to find someone around me who was NOT religious.  Now it's hard to find any one that is.

 

Fighting against religion is on par with fighting people who think the earth is flat or that dinosaurs never existed.  You can do it for jokes, but the fight has been won.

Behold, the gnostic athiest.

I dont know about me being 'gnostic'.  That's true to some extent I suppose... in the same way you 'know' that there isn't an invisible elephant behind you right now or an imperceivably small leprechaun in your ass. i.e. you dont really know but you know.

Its a weird universe we live in.  Anything is possible.

Well if being agnostic means that you believe that there being a God is as likely as there being a leprechaun up your ass then I think you would find 99.9999% of atheists would be fine identifying as 'agnostic'.

i disagree.  many athiests are gnostic and are as convinced that there is no god as devout christians are that jesus is their savior.  an agnostic athiest believes nothing.

because thats not what agnostic means. false equivalency. there are plenty of agnostic theists in the world as evidence.

atheism has to do with belief

agnosticism pertains to claims about knowledge ( epistemology )

babies are agnostic atheists. every single one of them. because the do not believe in or subscribe to the idea of a god. therefore, they are without belief in a theology or divinity. a- ( literay means "nothing" or "without" ) theism ( belief in god ). 

yet the baby does not explicitly reject the idea of a god. 

catholics understood this dilemma quite well hence the intro of the concept of purgatory.

and no, babies are not inherently born with information about jesus. congenital religious belief structures is not a thing.

i hope this helps to clarify for some of the confused posters.

 

thanks.  i misspoke there, but am pretty sure that's what i said earlier in the thread.

no dude you had the right idea.

i was addressing jspeed.

the explicit atheist BELIEVES there is no good.

the agnostic atheist ( me ) is simply without belief.  no burden of proof necessary as you cant prove a negative.

atheists claiming that they know there is no god is as arrogant, loathsome, and pretentious as the assholes who claim they know where we go when we die and then go on to describe it like they ve been there.

belief should be based on evidence and logic while minimalizing assumptions as much as possible. 

if you wish to believe in an invisible sky superman, great, just keep it to yourself.

I didn't realize you were addressing me.  I'll say to you what I said to him:

 

Do you believe that there is no invisible leprechaun dancing up your ass right now? Or do you not know?

 

If you believe that there is no invisible leprechaun dancing up your ass right now, then you are the equivalent of an gnostic atheist not believing in there being a god.

If you simply claim to 'not know' - then you should understand how absurd you sound:  You don't know whether or not theres an invisible leprechaun up your ass?  How can you be taken seriously?

 

[edited to change 'agnostic' to 'gnostic' in the sentence, "then you are the equivalent of an gnostic atheist not believing in there being a god." ]

im without belief. 

theres a crucial distinction that you re missing.

I'm not missing anything.  I'm pointing out the absurdity of your philosophical stance: Based on your definitions you are forced to admit that there might be an invisible leprechaun up your ass.

 

The fact that that doesn't get you to reconsider whether or not you're on the right side of the fence is troubling.

not at all. i dont believe there is a magic leprechaun up my ass. im not forced to admit any such thing. you re straw manning and revealing your ignorance towards my position in the process. by the way, those arent my definitions. those are the working definitions that have been in play for years and years. the fact that its almost 2020 and people still dont understand the basic  and simple definition of atheist / agnostic is hilarious.

 i dont believe the propositions of the bible are true.

i dont believe an omnibenevolent being casts souls into hell because its a blatant contradiction.

i explicitly reject the claims of christianity. i believe that all of the abrahamic religions are fallible / spurious. 

is there a god ? i dont know. the christian / islamic / judaeo god  is rubbish. i dont rule out the possibility that we re not living in a computer simulation. i dont claim to know what happens when we die. to do so without evidence is foolhardy and egotistical at a scale that is frightening. but im beyond confident the bible is utter horseshit and toxic.

 

but your claim that im forced to believe in a leprachaun is beyond fucking absurd and shows an enormous lack of understanding on your part. just like im not forced to believe in chakras. 

prove there is a leprachaun and ill believe. until then...

 

I think we're talking past one another here.  The orignal post accused me of being a 'gnostic atheist' because I believe that there is no God.  I responded by asking whether or not the poster 'knew' that there was no invisible leprechaun up his ass, because it is to THAT extent that I 'know' there is no God.  (i.e. I'm not claiming to 'know' in some absolute sense (ex. 2+2=4).

 

The point I was raising was that if the poster thinks that THAT particular level of certainty makes you 'agnostic' about something, then most atheists are in fact agnostic because they believe that there is no God with the same certainty that they believe there is no leprechaun up there ass.

11/1/19 11:03 PM
3/14/04
Posts: 132715
yep. I know there is no god, as commonly defined, in the same way that everyone else knows an internal combustion engine isn't really powered by millions of tiny sub-microscopic invisible elves inside it making it work.
11/4/19 12:01 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 21084

Here are some resources for devout theists.

If you're Catholic, you can get a set of ropes or chains with a handle that you can whack yourself on the back with for penance as you walk through the streets of your town. 

Here's a partcularly fancy example.

https://www.cilice.co.uk/product/the-chain-crucifix-discipline/

11/4/19 12:10 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 21085

This is a cilice that some Catholics wear around their thigh for 2 hours a day or more as mortification of the flesh to honor God. It's a spiked chain that pokes the skin and can cause bleeding and scars with regular use. Members of the conservative Catholic group Opus Dei sometimes do this.

https://www.cilice.co.uk/product/a-light-weight-one-link-1mm-gauge-full-leg-metal-cilice-with-metal-fastener/

11/4/19 12:24 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 21086

This is an itchy goatskin hairshirt that some Catholics wear under their clothes to honor God.

https://www.cilice.co.uk/product/goatskin-hairshirt/